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Best Way to put Navra units/warrants in super ?

Discussion in 'Superannuation, SMSF & Personal Insurance' started by seaview, 13th Apr, 2008.

  1. seaview

    seaview Well-Known Member

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    Hi,

    A friend of mine wants to switch her "going nowhere" super fund over to Navra retail fund or Navra warrants to get some regular income.

    She is 55 years old and a widow with no income (apart from the measly widows allowance which she is willing to give up as it allows very few assets or income before drastically reducing the allowance - it is far more restrictive than the aged pension).

    She has about 175k in super to invest so could she get it out and buy the Navra Fund outside super, or gear up to about 350k Navra warrants outside super? Obviously she would incur tax on the income if earned outside super.

    The other option is to keep it in super instead, but since she is only 55, won't she incur income tax now on the income she draws down? If so, how much?

    I recall that a percentage of super can be accessed annually at 55 as a part pension, but I forget all the details.
    In particular, we wondered what percentage of the fund can be paid as a part pension. If she cannot draw down all the income (eg about 55k income from 350k in fund) she may be better to do it outside of super.??

    Also, she was thinking of using a super e-wrap to do all this to save on fees and admin, rather than setting up a SMSF. However when we checked ASGARD and WEALTHTRAC e-wraps they no longer list Navra as an option, although they previously did.

    SO does anyone know if any other super wraps offer Navra Fund/Navra Warrants as an option?
    Also, do any industry super funds offer Navra as an option?

    Lastly, it would be nice to go to a planner, but not to one that takes a big chunk of the investment and ongoing commission. Does anyone know of a good planner that charges by fees rather than commission, and who is Navra savvy?

    Sorry to have so many questions, but it is a complex issue, and any ideas are welcome.

    Thanks
    Seaview
     
  2. AsxBroker

    AsxBroker Well-Known Member

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    Hi Seaview,

    Why doesn't she speak to Navra Financial Services?
    This seems the first option...

    Cheers,

    Dan
     
  3. seaview

    seaview Well-Known Member

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    We can ask Navrainvest which super funds offer their products, but we prefer to avoid Navra Financial Service planners because of their commission based fees.
    My query here is just a bit of basic research to glean any useful ideas from the collective knowledge trust.
    Thanks
    Seaview
     
  4. Bob

    Bob Well-Known Member

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    Navra


    Seaview,

    Sometimes it is cheaper to get good factual advice especially if you intend investing with that organisation. With all due respect to the members on this forum I would not be placing my future with information supplied on here.

    Bob
     
  5. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    No - but for research purposes this is a good place to be seeking ideas and thoughts that you can then discuss with your planners.

    Planners can't come up with the answers if you don't know the questions to ask!
     
  6. Mark Laszczuk

    Mark Laszczuk Well-Known Member

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    Ahhh, the good old (but totally pointless) fees vs. commissions argument again.

    From Professional Planner March 2008 issue 'No Squeak, No Oil' by Alan Kohler:

    "Recently, a friend passed on to me a statement of advice received by his mother from a very reputable financial adviser - famously reputable in fact - for my opinion on it....

    *filler*

    ....And then I saw the fee: $8,330 per annum. A mere 1.67 percent and roughly in line with what everyone else is charging for financial advice...

    *filler*

    ...but the adviser in the example of my friend and his mother was a fee-for-service planner. He rebates commissions. Then he slugs you."

    I wonder what Seaview considers 'a big chunk'? What do you, Seaview, expect to get? Do you want constant monitoring of your portfolio or do you want to just get some initial advice? What do you think you should be paying for quality advice? Why do you think that trails are any different to fee for service? Either way, you still pay.

    You can always go to Westpac for 'advice'. They're offering to help people with their super for a mere $199! Actually, you could even go to Centrelink. You won't even have to pay for it then. There you go, sounds right up your alley! Don't whinge though when you realise the advice you're getting is absolute garbage.

    If you want good advice, then be prepared to pay for it.

    Mark
     
  7. AsxBroker

    AsxBroker Well-Known Member

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    Hi Seaview,

    I would have thought the ongoing tax savings would have been worth it personally. Your queries are a little more than basic with 6 question marks...

    I agree with Mark, you get what you pay for. If you pay a one-off fee, how do you know that the advice is in your (or your friends) best interest?

    Ironically, if you pay a one-off fee, then when you want your situation reviewed you'll pay another review fee.

    You'll usually pay an annual retainer (which is ongoing) compared to a smaller ongoing adviser fee. Like Mark said the fee is usually higher than a commission.

    Like I said before, nobody is going to know Navra funds more than Navra Financial Services...

    Cheers,

    Dan

    PS Before making an investment decision speak to your FPA registered Financial Planner.
     
  8. Mark Laszczuk

    Mark Laszczuk Well-Known Member

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    Seaview,

    You need to understand, you don't get something for nothing. If you had to go in to get specialised surgery, are you going to look for the bargain doctor? Of course not, you're going to look for the best you can afford. But so many people these days think it's their right to pay very little for top notch financial advice. I guess this is why over 99% of people retire on less than $50,000 a year. Too busy pinching the pennies instead of focusing on the dollars.

    On the surface, your friend's situation doesn't look *that* complicated. But do you really want to risk getting advice from some incompetent boob just to save a few bucks or feel big because you aren't paying commissions? Fee For Service doesn't automatically equal a good adviser.

    You're missing the forest for the trees, friend. Look for advice that is provided by someone who is good at what they do in the area you need the advice. Would you mind if someone was getting paid by commissions if you knew they were able to save you several thousand dollars a year? More importantly, are you going to give some of those savings to the fee for service adviser for putting that money back in your pocket? I didn't think so.

    Mark
     
  9. Redwing

    Redwing Well-Known Member

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    ;)Agreed, getting a great Financial Advisor can be a bonus to your wealth....but where do you find such a person?

    After all, I want someone who's going to offer advice, not just see me as a sale.....and its a user pays system, I'm inclined to go on referals at the moment and believe a great (even good) one would be worth more than their weight

    I use an accountant to do my taxes each year, so I'm happy enough to pay for a FP (If he pays for himself..then some I'm reasonably happy :D) I'm looking for someone to be part of my "Team", it can be a long term relationship after all

    Still haven't come across a great one yet, most seem to be chasing clients with the big bucks and bigger commisions/fees (sadly, not me yet)

    Hardd to even get some members of their team to respond to emails ;)

    Just saw this on a quick google, sure to cause a fuss like the Truth about Financial Planners post The truth about financial advisors. Rate your financial advisor.
     
  10. Mark Laszczuk

    Mark Laszczuk Well-Known Member

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    Hi Redwing,

    Why would it cause a stir? It's absolutely spot on.

    Mark
     
  11. seaview

    seaview Well-Known Member

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    Give me a break.
    If I wanted to start a thread debating fees vs commission based planners I would have.
    I thought as Sim rightfully pointed out this was a good place to bounce ideas about. I am a firm believer in doing due diligence before I think about whether a planner may be needed.
    I guess no one here is able to answer any of the questions about super.
    That is a shame.
    I will have to spend many hours digging out all the articles I previously read to fine tune some strategies BEFORE seeing a planner.
    Thanks for nothing
    Seeya
     
  12. Mark Laszczuk

    Mark Laszczuk Well-Known Member

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    What a marvelous attitude! You came to the forum looking for specialised advice and got sooky when you didn't get what you wanted. I can't give you any pointers on any level because it could be construed as advice and legally speaking, that's a big Neddy no-no for someone in the planning industry. Kinda proves the point that you don't get something for nothing, eh.

    What Sim' was referring to is coming to the forum for general advice, not specialised advice such that you are looking for.

    Mark
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 15th Apr, 2008
  13. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    No actually - I think there was plenty of questions in seaview's original post which could be addressed in a "here's the facts", or even "here's the theory - it may give you some ideas" kind of way.

    I think answering some parts of the questions with facts is a good approach - even if you can't answer the specifics about the individual situation.

    Here's some parts I would have loved to see some responses on:

    ... I think there's plenty of room for discussion there without giving advice.

    Forums like this really become useless if we can't throw ideas around.

    My general rule of thumb is ... if the information is of the type that you would find on the ATO website - then it is valid to share on a forum like this and isn't advice.

    Answering a "how does this work" question is very different to answering a "which is best" or "how should I" type question.
     
  14. Mark Laszczuk

    Mark Laszczuk Well-Known Member

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    That's fair enough. But it won't be coming from me. As stated, if it can be construed as advice, that's a big legal black hole which I am not willing to put myself nor our licensee into jeopardy for. Nothing personal guys, but the law is the law.

    Mark
     
  15. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    I don't want you giving advice either - since I can also get in trouble if you do!

    ... but are you able to answer any of those questions I highlighted with factual answers about super rules ?
     
  16. seaview

    seaview Well-Known Member

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    tee hee ...... I'm not sooky, just a stirrer.

    Seaview
     
  17. Steve Navra

    Steve Navra Well-Known Member

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    The funny thing is that I will personally answer all these questions for free!

    All you have to do is come in and see me . . . there is no fee or cost at the first meeting. It is only beyond the first meeting that an individual might decide to work with us and then elects to have a financial plan prepared.

    Up until then, there is NO COST . . . so??

    Sometimes people stir for the sake of stirring?

    I have had this "open door" policy for years . . . the truly committed do take up my offer and come and see me for free.

    Sadly a lot of "stirrers" (I have another word for them) don't have the courage of their convictions to come and get the FREE advice they purport to seek :mad:


    Regards,
    Steve
     
  18. seaview

    seaview Well-Known Member

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    Sorry everyone if my frustration at not getting some fairly simple questions answered has offended you.

    Thanks for all your kind offers of advice, although sadly none of them answers any of my questions about super. I guess my big mistake was putting a personal face on my questions, and daring to say we would prefer not to use a planner (it is a free country isn't it?). Anyway, I won't get caught doing that again, lest it be construed as seeking a financial plan for free, and worst of all, sidetracks the thread away from its topic.

    However, I do appreciate your offer Steve, but we really just want a few simple bits of info at this stage before we decide whether we want to proceed, and we will probably see a planner eventually, but that will be our choice.

    Anyway, once I find the time to dig out some general answers to the questions, I will post the information myself, if no-one else does, so that others may benefit from this knowledge (which after all is the purpose of this forum).

    Cheerio
    Seaview
     
  19. seaview

    seaview Well-Known Member

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    Well, that was easier than I thought.

    Someone here recommended ESUPERFUND so I checked it out.
    Lots of detailed info on how super and pensions work, and how to get the most out of them (much better than ATO and other sites).

    Notional retirement ages vary by DOB, but basically a 55 year old retiree can draw down a pension of any amount from their super by setting up a Simple Account Based Pension. They say you can have managed funds in it so I assume Navra is OK.

    Another option, if still working more than a certain number of hours weekly is to use a Transition to Retirement Pension, but this only allows a maximum pension of 10% annually.
    There seems to be a bit of flexibility as they suggest you can start working again and still keep getting the Simple Account Based Pension.

    The site also raises lots of other points to consider: tax rebates, lump sums and strategies to minimise tax when you pass it on through your estate etc... and property purchases / warrants too.

    The only glitch is they are limited to SMSFs, but it seems simple to set up and maintain compared to mainstream products.

    Anyway, we would still like to find out if any industry funds offer Navra Fund/warrants in Simple Account Based Pensions, so I guess I will keep digging.

    Naturally, the above is my opinion only, and NOT to be taken as financial advice. :cool:

    Seaview
     
  20. Billv

    Billv Getting there

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    seaview

    I am suprised by some of the posts here. :confused:

    Anyway, thanks for your latest post.
    I have read your initial post and understand what you want to do
    but I don't have sufficient knowledge in this area to be able to help you.

    I am also looking at alternative super options.
    I have looked at Esuperfund myself but considering the state of world financial markets it didn't seem like something I'd like to do at present.

    I also did some research into gearing with a SMSF to buy property and I thought that for me it wasn't a good option at this point in time either.
    The low gearing, high interest rates, low rents as well as the high running costs of a SMSF contributed to my decision.

    So I am leaving my super parked in cash for the time being.

    Cheers