Blacktown NSW

Gday folks
being on the other side of the country, it is hard to guage what areas are reasonable investing prospects. I came across an area called Blacktown on re.com.au about 30 kms outside of CBD. Prices and rents look comparitively reasonable. Although if we decide to go ahead buying over there we will use a buyer's agent anyway, I would like to try and get somewhat of a handle on some of the areas. Anyone got any opinion on Blacktown from an investment perspective?
Thanks!

 

Im sure jacque will answer this better, but i would personally look at parramatta as a better option, theres only about 5-8km difference between them and you can get something with alot more potential.

Additionally in saying that, remember sydney is in a two phase market at the moment. the luxury suburbs are putting in some good growth while mortage belt suburbs are still falling... (blacktown would be one of those)

Im guessing you budget is around the 350k, and you may be better off coming closer to the city and buying a 1/2 bed unit in the lower north shore for this type of money, but if you want a house then maybe look at the hills district instead...

 

Hi coopranos

Yep, ask jacque.

Also, I think alexlee (on somersoft) has a bit of a thing for blacktown as a potential area.

 

Blacktown, if you don't know, if a low socio-economic area. It's got its fair share of problems..

Blacktown to Sydney is like Logan to Brisbane.

 

Glebe,

How do you know it has problems?
You have never driven past Parramatta

Cheers
Bill

 

coopranos

Blacktown council consists of approx 40 suburbs and the point our friend GLEBE
was trying to make is that a couple of suburbs have high percentage of housing commision people.

In those small pockets there could be some small annoying situations where
your neighbour is annoying or their kids are running around out of control.
Nothing too major I would say.

In Blacktown as in every other area there are good suburbs and not as good ones. If you are not from the area it's hard to identify which suburbs to look for.

The area has IMHO the best yields so your holding costs will be low and it's the fastest growing in Sydney.

Blacktown IMO is not any more unsafe than Newtown or Glebe.

Some of the better suburbs are IMO, Quakers Hill, Kings Langley, Glenwood, Stanhope gardens, Acacia gardens, Parts of Seven Hills etc.

Cheers
Bill

 

w00! Stanhope Gardens ftw (well...Newbury actually)

Blacktown isn't too bad - alot better than Mount Druitt/Shalvey/etc.

 

Blacktown itself (suburb as opposed to the LGA) has suffered from negative housing growth in the last few yrs, like many western suburbs of Sydney.
It also suffers from the stigma (and always has) that is akin to many of these suburbs - housing commission stock, lower socio-economic demographics, higher crime rates = not desirable to invest.

However, as with previous posters, I would agree that there are indeed particular suburbs and pockets within suburbs that have a better "reputation" and are more attractively situated to attract not only a better class of tenant but also to potentially hold their value and grow in value over time due to proximity to transport, schools, shops etc.

I'm actually a fan of the suburbs north of Parramatta, such as Northmead, Winston Hills, Castle and Baulkham Hills and sections of Seven Hills for growth prospects. Entry prices are still relatively low compared to other Sydney suburbs and consequently yields more attractive. There is also potential for housing on larger blocks to possibly accommodate future dvpt (dual occ or knockdown and rebuilds) which is only going to increase in this part of Sydney's burgeoning NorthWest growth sector.

If you are keen on Blacktown council side, check out Seven Hills (southside is preferable) and parts of Kings Langley for value for money. Prices have been going down or nowhere for quite some years now and there is good stock, under the $400K range in freestanding housing.

As for $350K getting you a decent 2bd unit on the North Shore, you'd be hard pressed, quite frankly (but then again I'm very fussy on unit criteria )
- picking up a 1bedder would be far easier. Try to stick to small blocks (under 20) well managed and with majority of owner occupiers. Anything walking distance to transport and with car accommodation is also advised.

 

I lived in Campbelltown for 10 years, I think that's further out than Parra. I never said I was a Blacktown expert though. Just helping out an interstater a little.


Coopranos,

There is a document here that has lots of great information about Blacktown:
http://www.blacktown.nsw.gov.au/sha...7FF-0ADF-9D99-0BF5EC727F8D&siteName=blacktown

 

Interesting to read, in the lastest API issue, that Blacktown LGA has actually underperformed in predicted population growth, according to the article written by demographer, Bernard Salt.

Perhaps the population forecast was responsible for media attention in recent yrs as a "hotspot" for property investment.

 

Jacque,
But does the population growth have to match a prediction?
There has been a huge increase in population so far.
I remember when the M2 opened up, a lot of the land along Windsor road was
farmland, now it's all housing.
I wonder though if there is any more land to be released.
Are they running out of available land?
Cheers
Bill

 

I grew up in and around the Blacktown area I would agree that there are ther good and the not so good suburbs. I would also agree to stay clear of Mt druitt, Bidwill, Shalvey, Doonside, Rooty Hill etc. However as a conveyancer I have had clients purchase in these areas and they seem to have done quite well and they come back for a second purchase. The areas of Mt Druitt ie Hassall Grove & Plumpton are the nicer areas of Mt Druitt but unfortunately they come under the Mt Druitt belt. There are good and bad areas ie Prospect you go along the main street one side the houses are lovely and the opposite side is the not so lovely full of housing commission etc. Quakers Hill is similar to Prospect. Look in the new area of quakers hill which is close to Stanhope Gardens. If you locate the railway station say on something like whereis.com the Stanhope Gardens side of Quakers Hill is the newer side the other side has a lot of Housing Commission. I would agree with Jacque about Kings Langley & Seven Hills - but they are the older suburbs and would depends on what you are looking for.

Not taking into account any statistics or percentages on area growth and only from personal experience in relation to buying in Parramatta that if you are looking at units that there are so many there and a lot of research should be done as there are units there that were purchased off the plan a few years ago for around $410k and are now only valued at $290K sold on views and being in the CBD etc. In dependent valuation may help.

 

Fran

Prospect is not a bad area either but it depends on what people are looking for. I remember many years ago, I didn't buy in Prospect because it didn't have a train line. To other investors this is not an issue and will happily buy there.

I actually don't believe that areas such as Mt Druit are bad for investment.
The yields in some of these suburbs are good and I am sure there are pockets/streets where investors could do well from a purchase there.
I also believe that in our capital cities and in the long run all property goes up irrespective of where it is.

I would happily buy 3 properties in the western suburbs instead of 1 on the North Shore because the yields would so much better so my holding costs will be low and the 3 properties will be a lot easier to rent out.
On the North shore the 1x 1Mil $ property will be hard to let and the yield will also be lower.

For the same money another alternative would be to buy 2 cheap properties in lets say Marrickville (City Innerwest)
They will also be easy to let but the yields won't be as good as in the Western Sydney region.

At the same time the CG in all 3 areas (in the long run) won't be much different.

IMO if you buy out West, you hold long term and sell at the right time you can make just as much money as if you've bought on the North Shore or innerwest (using OPM and having lower holding costs ).

Cheers
Bill

 

Hi Bill,
Not saying Mt Druitt is bad for investment at all. As i said my clients keep purchasing there so things must be going OK. Just pointing out to someone that doesnt know the area that the area is not seen as nice as some of the other areas in Blacktown that there is to chose from. I lived in Mt Druitt for a couple of years and didnt have any concerns however, there are parts in the area if you dont know them that most of us wouldnt probably be too happy to live in. When people talk about Mt Druitt they intend to brand it with housing commission, crime etc.

 

Local knowledge is so powerful as a buyer, as Fran and others have already indicated by their posts in this thread- knowing specific streets, "good" and "bad" areas, locals favourite/contraband haunts, areas prone to problems (for a myriad of reasons) and blue ribbon/sought after pockets, school catchment areas, future development sites and plans etc etc. The list goes on.....

That's why a forum such as this is so helpful- when making all important investment decision about where to buy, it's so useful to hear from the locals as well as collate the growth and yield statistics and crunch the numbers. Not all areas are equal (despite the figures) and it pays to do the walking, talking and "chin-wagging" with those necessary folk who just might help you from making an expensive mistake. Thanks to all for contributing so far to this thread.

 

I certainly agree with you, Bill, though depending on timing in the market, you could be waiting for a longer period in some suburbs, simply because of the period in which you purchased. If you take Penrith as an example, (and this definitely qualifies as west) and you'd bought in 1991 and then sold 7yrs later in 1998 you would have been lucky to have made any cg at all. However, holding it for a further 3 yrs until 2001 would have rewarded you with almost double - the cycle goes around but it's all about timing and time in the market - both are important.

The basic fundamentals (position, rental demand, type of property, condition etc) remain the same for any suburb and it's also by paying close attention to these as well that your hard research work should ideally pay off.

 

Jacque,

Yes timing is important but property is a long term investment
so if we buy sensibly it doesn't matter if our timing is not perfect.

If I am able to find IP's that cost me little to hold,
then my cash flow is not affected by much and I can wait for as long as it takes.

However, if I bought the 1 mil $ property my cash flow would suffer
and if I don't get the timing right, interest rates go up or if I have difficulties finding a tenant then I can easily go under...

Cheers
Bill

 

I have reading this thread with interest.
What would be people opinion here regarding the yield and capital growth of both of the scenario.
Will the North Shore unit have a better yield and lower growth. I making an assumption simply form the fact that North shore is closer to the city and the Seven Hills has bigger land.
I spent 4 days in Cheery Brook early this month, a nice suburb but a bit far from the city. This is if you work in the city.