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Carlton Investments Limited (CIN)

Discussion in 'Listed Investment Companies (LIC) and Trusts (LIT)' started by Banawarra, 22nd Sep, 2016.

  1. Banawarra

    Banawarra Member

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    Anyone invest in CIN.

    Thoughts on it as an LIC? Very small amounts traded each day. Does the large exposure to hotels and movie theatres scare people off?
     
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  2. austing

    austing Well-Known Member

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    Another old LIC with an incredibly low fee. It has performed very strongly in recent times mainly due to its largest holding. Have known a number of people that hold it. It's generally at a reasonable discount. Quite a passive LIC. But for me the 48% exposure to Event Hospitality and Entertainment has deterred me from holding it. Perhaps if it was at a large discount to compensate for the massive single holding of EVT and as a smaller part of the portfolio it would be worth holding. Despite it being at a discount ( from memory) I'd personally wait for the heat to come out of CIN before purchasing it. It has run very hard in the last few years.
     
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  3. Hodor

    Hodor Well-Known Member

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    It struck them off my list. I don't want my investment performance to be at the mercy of any single company and CIN's portfolio, for better or worse, is concentrated on EVT. They may continue to outperform or not, they don't align with my strategy however.
     
  4. Il Falco

    Il Falco Active Member

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    You'd need to be picking it up when EVT is being absolutely hammered and priced accordingly, but then you'd need to have a view on EVT. This is much less a LIC than Alan Rydge's family office in a listed form.....you'll note that he is also invested in GOW (Gowings Brothers) which is a tiny investment company holding mostly B grade commercial on NSW North Coast and a few stocks. Another weird one. Pass.
     
  5. twisted strategies

    twisted strategies Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    QLD
    Event Hospitality and Entertainment 447,330 47.8%
    National Australia Bank 55,865 6.0%
    Westpac Bank 52,379 5.6%
    Commonwealth Bank 42,628 4.5%
    AGL 30,952 3.3%
    Wesfarmers 24,437 2.6%
    ANZ Bank 24,224 2.6%
    Telstra 24,095 2.6%
    Perpetual 16,539 1.8%
    Gowing Bros 15,702 1.7%
    Bank of Queensland 15,074 1.6%
    BHP Billiton 14,928 1.6%
    James Hardie 12,789 1.4%
    Amcor 12,737 1.4%
    Bendigo & Adelaide Bank 10,725 1.1%
    APA Group 8,377 0.9%
    Orica 6,680 0.7%
    Origin Energy 6,552 0.7%
    LendLease Group 6,237 0.6%
    Rio Tinto 4,930 0.5%

    833,180 ...89.0%

    Total Equity Investments 935,637 98.3%
    Term Deposits and Cash 16,272 1.7%
    Total Investments and Cash 919,365 100.0%

    not exclusively because of the EVT holding , AGL , PPT , JHX , APA and RIO aren't so popular with me either

    the high SP .. modest divs ( compared to SP )

    at the current share price ( above $30 ) i would prefer to look elsewhere
     
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  6. twisted strategies

    twisted strategies Well-Known Member

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    Il Falco

    strangely enough ( for most )

    i would be more likely to buy a small holding in GOW , than PPT ( which i used to hold ), ORI , or JHX

    but i would need a steeper discount thanks
     
  7. Il Falco

    Il Falco Active Member

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    I don't like any of them. But GOW has been a serial underperformer for a long time, last 5 years looks ok. I've read their annuals over time and they don't impress me at all. Not a hard business to value though, so if at a very wide discount could be ok for a trade. Its really a b grade (retail) commercial property play not an area I have an interest in. An interesting story though.
     
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  8. twisted strategies

    twisted strategies Well-Known Member

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    but serial under-performers , sometimes have a good run ,

    i bought a block of land in 1975 , in the middle of nowhere '

    now the real estate folks call it 'Millionaire's cul-de-sac '

    very barely technically accurate ( but millionaire doesn't mean the same as 1975 either )

    but the land value has risen by 40 times ( 4000% ) ( no brilliant foresight needed )

    and i haven't liked GOW yet enough to buy some, but disliked the companies used in the comparison lmore .

    now EVT is the linchpin in this LIC has the fund manager grasped a fact others haven't ??

    ( say) it has the red carpet to the next games event at Qld's Gold Coast , or the other companies doing major event hosting are in deep trouble .... or even SVW has a lustful eye on them .

    is the EVT stake the reputation builder or breaker ??
     
  9. bingomaster

    bingomaster Active Member

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    So you're saying... buy random stocks and plots of land and hope for the best?
     
  10. austing

    austing Well-Known Member

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    @bingomaster, you crack me up:D. I just choked on my coffee.
     
  11. twisted strategies

    twisted strategies Well-Known Member

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    not random , but certainly unloved by most back then , and arguably nothing all that special now ,
    but in say 30 years time when Brisbane and the Gold Coast and Beenleigh collide into one sordid mess .

    i had by then also unknowingly brushed up against some very savvy real estate investors ( growing up ) , and absorbed some basic hints .

    position ,position , position ( the world was thinking 5 years ahead and i was thinking 50+ years ahead , i would love to claim genius but that would be untrue , it was also clearly obvious on a biggish map )

    the second was access , everybody else saw a ( minor ) country highway ( and road noise ) ... i saw 3 road bitumen frontage ( already in place ) on a rectangular block ( instant small acreage lots )

    other considerations helped the decision , but the top two grabbed my attention .

    effectively similar to investing ... a buyer with an existing family would have found the ( then ) remoteness unattractive .
     
  12. Il Falco

    Il Falco Active Member

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    Re GOW, they just had their good run.

    Re CIN, there isn't a fund manager. As mentioned, this is the personal investment vehicle of Alan Rydge. It just happened to be listed. He is the chairman of EVT. This is not a normal LIC.

    How Alan Rydge quietly amassed a $1.5 billion portfolio

    Rydge is a bloody good business operator. But as a stock picker, I rate his insights similar to AUI and DUI.
     
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  13. twisted strategies

    twisted strategies Well-Known Member

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    Il Falco ,

    a question of ( investor ) faith then ??

    boring and solid makes a nice core with a major ( unusual ) holding ( a different angle of HHV )

    possibly won't attract me as a LIC but CINPA might be considered ( at a price )
     
  14. Il Falco

    Il Falco Active Member

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    Just buy EVT if you like it and find a better LIC ;)
     
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  15. austing

    austing Well-Known Member

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    But you get EVT at a 13% discount by purchasing it through CIN AND heaps of other wonderfull stuff:D.
     
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  16. twisted strategies

    twisted strategies Well-Known Member

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    actually i was thinking that 7% ( fixed ) on the preference share ( and potentially a conversion later )

    would be an appealing angle from me should i find the right entry
     
  17. Il Falco

    Il Falco Active Member

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    I'd be looking for more than a 13% discount to buy EVT ! :)
     
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