Managed Funds Challenger China Fund - Lost $1k

Discussion in 'Shares & Funds' started by Lam Thieu, 9th Nov, 2007.

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  1. crc_error

    crc_error The Rule of 72

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    good on ya pinkeye!

    risk what you can afford to loose... so if there is a 10% drop, thats only $500 and if your confortable what that.. then all is cool! if not, then this fund isn't for you!

    I entered Platinum Asia a couple weeks ago, and since its dropped 6%.. so I'm not to happy about they either.. but what can you do!
     
    crc_error, 12th Nov, 2007
    #21
  2. crc_error

    crc_error The Rule of 72

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    if it helps.. looking at the china index, it looks like we are at the bottom of the up trending channel, so one would hope the market should turn around soon.

    Bloomberg.com: Investment Tools
     
    crc_error, 12th Nov, 2007
    #22
  3. MichaelW

    MichaelW Well-Known Member

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    And if it helps, look at the pages on China (p17-19) in the RBA's update today linked below:

    http://www.rba.gov.au/PublicationsA...icy/Statements/statement_on_monetary_1107.pdf

    And so forth...

    Might be time I put my diversification plans in motion.
     
    MichaelW, 12th Nov, 2007
    #23
  4. Rod_WA

    Rod_WA Well-Known Member

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    Hullaballoo, did you read that Michael?

    71 pages of Monetary Policy - I feel like I'm missing something...:D

    Bugger it, if I want to talk the talk with economics, I'd better learn to walk the walk. Just printing it out now... I'll have to attack it after my wife has gone to sleep (better still, I'll read it to her, that'll speed things along... or maybe I'll discover a different side to her, the inner woman that gets excited by raw fiscal data :p).
     
    Rod_WA, 12th Nov, 2007
    #24
  5. learning

    learning Member

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    Sounds like its a time to buy to me. I automatically invest money every fornight, so if the market goes up or down, in the long term, I am reasonably confident that the funds I am in will perform in the long term, and you should have that same attitude. Everyones attitude is different I suppose. Whenever I see the market fall, like it has over the last week and today, it makes me want to buy above and beyond my fornightly amount. I get more scared when prices rise than fall.
     
    learning, 12th Nov, 2007
    #25
  6. MichaelW

    MichaelW Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, Yes!

    Like you said, if you want to talk the talk then you have to walk the walk. I got a lot out of that report...

    Cheers,
    Michael.
     
    MichaelW, 13th Nov, 2007
    #26
  7. MichaelW

    MichaelW Well-Known Member

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    Hi guys,

    Here's another report for the commodity bulls amongst us (myself included):

    The Chinese Revolution - Executive News at The Big Chair

    I think it might almost be time to diversify my holdings (finally). I was waiting for a pull-back so might wait a touch longer to see if the sub-prime issue has any more surprises in store, but this is what I'm considering:

    35% NAV0001AU Navra Blue Chip Australian Share Retail Fund
    35% JBW0008AU Goldman Sachs JBWere Resources Fund
    15% PLA0004AU Platinum Asia Fund
    15% FID0011AU Fidelity China Fund

    Welcome any thoughts. I'm flexible on my China exposure, Fidelity or Challenger and would welcome any insight into pros/cons.

    Cheers,
    Michael.

    PS I'm invested using an ANZ margin loan so am faxing them my diversification request. Does anyone know if they can use InvestSmart so I can get my entry fee rebated? Its a big hit if I can't.
     
    MichaelW, 15th Nov, 2007
    #27
  8. crc_error

    crc_error The Rule of 72

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    Hi Michael,

    2 weeks ago I invested 50% into CFS Global resources, and 50% into Platinum ASIA. I think now my overall exposure to these funds is about 15% into each. I think your starting mix is quite good and I think you should expect some decent returns over the next few years. Be prepared for some volatility here.

    To use investsmart, download the PDS from investsmart and use the included application form which gets sent to your margin lender, who will draw a cheque and send it to the fund manager. The investsmart app form will have their stamp and 0% entry/exit fee's listed. Plus if the funds qualify, you will get a rebate of management fee's..

    Please note that the platinum ASIA fund isn't just china, so those two funds are increasing your china only exposure.. however india is also a booming market so lets not forget it aswell.

    Increase your platinum exposure if you want them to weigh your ASIA exposure, or increase your Fidelity china exposure if your confident china will be the boomer in the region.
     
    crc_error, 15th Nov, 2007
    #28
  9. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    Actually I think you'll find that Platinum Asia has relatively little exposure to China compared to many other funds (including the China funds obviously) ... but it still stands to benefit from the strength in the area ... especially India, which is often forgotten about - but still presents many opportunities.
     
    Simon Hampel, 15th Nov, 2007
    #29
  10. crc_error

    crc_error The Rule of 72

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    Sim, why do you think they have little exposure to china?
     
    crc_error, 15th Nov, 2007
    #30
  11. Lam Thieu

    Lam Thieu Well-Known Member

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    Just wondering what people think of Platinum Asia vs. Challenger Asia Share Fund.

    I like to get into Platinum Asia but the minimum investment is pretty steep at $25,000.
     
    Lam Thieu, 15th Nov, 2007
    #31
  12. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    I said "relatively little" ... if you look at the breakdown in the quarterly reports http://www.platinum.com.au/images/pafqtr_0907.pdf (and previous reports too) ... you'll see that less than 50% of their exposure is directly to China, and they talk about deliberately targeting those companies in regions outside China where corporate governance is stricter and companies can (arguably) be trusted to be more truthful in their reporting.

    That being said, if you look back through the history of those quarterly reports, you will see a quite significant increase in exposure to China in recent years.
     
    Simon Hampel, 15th Nov, 2007
    #32
  13. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    Perhaps have a look at investing via someone like Perpetual who do a retail version of the Platinum Asia fund with low minimum investment requirements - although the MER is much higher.

    Here's a comparison of several Asian funds: Platinum Asia Fund, Challenger Asian Share Fund, BT Asian Share Fund, Colonial First State - FirstChoice Asian Share ...

    [chart=CC;PLA0004AU,WAR0012AU,BTA0026AU,FSF0872AU;lasty;10;20071115]PLA0004AU,WAR0012AU,BTA0026AU,FSF0872AU[/chart]
     
    Simon Hampel, 15th Nov, 2007
    #33
  14. Lam Thieu

    Lam Thieu Well-Known Member

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    Wow, the Challenger Fund is doing very well in the past few years compared to the others.....perhaps that one should be the way to go.....coupled with reasonable MERs and low minimum investment.
     
    Lam Thieu, 15th Nov, 2007
    #34
  15. crc_error

    crc_error The Rule of 72

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    but you can see allot higher volatility.. however platinum seems to be more consistent.

    anyway I just got into Platinum Asia.. got my statement today, entry date was 5th of this month.. glad they took a extra couple days to process so I missed the higher entry prices few days before!
     
    crc_error, 15th Nov, 2007
    #35
  16. willy1111

    willy1111 Well-Known Member

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    I just bought into AGF - AMP's China fund which is traded on the ASX. Seems to be a decent amount of volume happening each day, so shouldn't have any issues with liquidity in the future. Planning on just putting it in the bottom draw for a couple of years.

    It did quite well to september - up 110% or so but has taken a bit of a hit recently - went down to 65 odd % and back upto about 76% now.

    I like the ease of just clicking the trade - buy button :)
     
    willy1111, 15th Nov, 2007
    #36
  17. fourth

    fourth Member

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    ...as in an ETF? Very interesting! Can you set stops on it as well? The lack of stops and liquidity are the only things that annoys me about managed funds in a crash. On FX I can close a trade in about 2 seconds as there is enough market depth to cover my order at stop price near 100% of the time. The downside to FX of course is that you are range trading and it's zero sum ;).

    I'm actually filling out the challenger pds now...
     
    fourth, 17th Nov, 2007
    #37
  18. Tropo

    Tropo Well-Known Member

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    "The downside to FX of course is that you are range trading and it's zero sum "

    What is wrong with a range trading ?
    Zero sum = are you sure ?:eek:
     
    Tropo, 18th Nov, 2007
    #38
  19. fourth

    fourth Member

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    More or less the upper and lower bounds are set. When you looked at Rio Tinto at $20 you are looking at something that had the ability to grow by more than 100%. I personally bought MBL in 2002 @$25. In FX you're talk a range of ~ 0.46 <-> ~0.93 in that same time period which basically means you -have- to leverage if you want to make decent profits. ... and we know what happens when you over leverage.

    Yep :) In fact thats what attracted me to it. The date was late August and the media were talking about the billions wiped off the equity markets. So I decided to learn about why and found that the 'money' in the stock markets was not 'real' as in the value of all the companies shares presented was not the same as the what was actually put in. It's just a localised agreement on what people are willing to pay at that specific time.

    FX though it real money, there is little 'perception' about it. Which of course leads to the conclusion that to 'win' in FX means that you are making someone else lose... and they are probably professionals.

    The thing that attracted me to FX though was the fact that there is no official bull\bear market and no gigantic crashes where 90% of the value of a currency disappears overnight. The volatility though is FAR higher to compensate though ;)

    I'm a relative newbie... but I learn fast... so I'm probably wrong ;)
     
    fourth, 18th Nov, 2007
    #39
  20. Tropo

    Tropo Well-Known Member

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    Well...Range trading is very profitable if you know what you are doing.
    Leverage has nothing to do with it. You can leverage low or high - up to you.
    There is a lot of theory about zero sum game. I do not necessarily agree that when you are making $$ someone else is losing, but that is only my view.
     
    Tropo, 18th Nov, 2007
    #40
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