Does high yield shares/stocks also mean higher risk?

Discussion in 'Share Investing Strategies, Theories & Education' started by Frank Manno, 14th May, 2017.

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  1. Frank Manno

    Frank Manno Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to start investing soon and am working closely with a funds manager who is going to set up a portfolio for me.

    At first, I decided I wanted a 'balanced' portfolio with a balanced risk.. A portfolio with some yield and some growth too.. Seems to be approx 5.5% dividend return per year is the goal.

    But now that I spent more than I wanted on a family home I'm starting to freak out that my cash is getting low and I want to make some money faster that what I think a balanced portfolio at approx 5.5% will give me in dividend return.

    I feel I need yield of around 7%. Now if I were to balance my portfolio to be of higher yield does this also increase the risk of loss? I'm happy to give up capital growth for 2-3 years but not happy to increase risk. These are life savings I'm playing with and this is also what I retire with..

    So my main question is, will a high yield / high dividend portfolio with little growth increase risk, or won't it? And is 7% dividend return considered high risk anyway?


    -Frank
     
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  2. twisted strategies

    twisted strategies Well-Known Member

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    something like CMW will give you roughly 8% return ( if bought under $1 )

    it currently pays 3 monthly with the option to DRP , it is currently a top 200 stock with reasonably liquidity ( allowing potential exits )

    high risk ???

    most current options are high risk ( yielding over 5% or not )

    with CMW the less obvious risk is over-expansion ( capital risk if the property markets implode at an important time )

    I hold CMW ( as a div. straight yield play )
     
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  3. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    How low are we talking? Less than 3-6 months worth of living/mortgage expenses?

    Can you afford to lose that money?

    What happens if the market drops 20%? Will that be a huge issue for you?

    How much is the funds manager charging you for setting up your portfolio?

    By way of comparison, the Vanguard High Yield Australian Shares Fund (VAN0017AU) has returned the following distributions in the past 5 financial years (distribution only, capital growth is on top of this):
    • 6.02%
    • 10.34%
    • 6.37%
    • 5.42%
    • 5.55%
    ... and this has nil entry fees and a MER of 0.90% for the first $50,000 invested.

    Not suggesting that this is necessarily a better investment - just wanted you to compare the returns you could get from a (relatively) low risk and low cost index fund.
     
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  4. twisted strategies

    twisted strategies Well-Known Member

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    I bought VHY ( the retail ETF version of Vanguard High Yield ) in 2011 and have nothing negative to say on them , but fortunate timing of the entry would bias the positive views. .

    HOWEVER , in the current climate capital loss ( $$$value ) are possible if a severe dip in the markets .

    this is a dangerous time to be playing with cash needed in the foreseeable future ( within say the next 12 months .
     
  5. twisted strategies

    twisted strategies Well-Known Member

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    to clarify on the VHY holding I am up ( roughly) 26% in $ per share value and up 40% in number of units held as I DRP my dividends .

    buying during a market correction ( July 2011 ) was pivotal to this result .

    and your entry timing and any exit timing ( if required ) will be very influential in your results .

    don't get me wrong I love ETFs , but also understand ( most of ) the risks and timing strategies needed .

    have you looked at AAA which is a debt focused ETF ( I avoid the concept of 'sausage debt ' ) , but it may suit your better in a scenario where interest rates could conceivably rise )
     
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  6. Frank Manno

    Frank Manno Well-Known Member

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    I can't afford to lose the money at all. This is all I have..

    If market drops 20% it's not a huge issue so long as it recovers within a year or 2 otherwise it will start to affect..

    Funds manager is charging me 1% of the amount invested to manage my money and set up investments..

    That Vanguard high yield funds looks interesting.. I will read up on it..


    -Frank
     
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  7. twisted strategies

    twisted strategies Well-Known Member

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    that 1% ( and no certainty of a superior outcome ) is why I decided to do all those decisions myself .

    I am far from infallible , but at least I can learn from what went wrong .

    ETFs require intense reading ( and thought ) those little details can mean a lot .( good or bad for you )

    now an unpleasant ( but possible ) issue could be a 'double dip ' correction/crash , so that recovery can be quite fragile in the short term ( less than 3 years is short term to me ).

    Vanguard isn't the only game in town and I have spread my ETFs exposure across 5 different brands , using moments in time to adjust focus .

    should there be a sizable crash ( XJO going below 4500 ) I will be looking at ILC and VLC on the logic the ASX top 20 companies will fall harder and rec over more reliably , than some others .

    I also purchased MVB recently ( the top 7 banks .. the big 4 + MQG , BEN and BOQ )

    the payout strategy may not suit you , but if going for a straight capital gains play , it just might .

    good luck , some confidence-testing times ahead
     
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  8. Hosko

    Hosko Well-Known Member

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    Hi Frank,
    You are braver than me if you are jumping in now with a requirement for more cash than you currently have now (the growth of capital part of your equation) in 2,3 or 4 years. By no means is it wrong and I truly hope for you that it does come off if you decide to pursue this. Just that you have more faith than me.
    Hopefully I am wrong and it would be a good outcome for all if the markets keep moving.
    And I do harp on about it but returns and risks of 6% of $20k is a very different proposition than 6% of $800k for most people.
     
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