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How to estimate fund distributions before June 30!

Discussion in 'Managed Funds & Index Funds' started by PennyWise, 18th Jun, 2008.

  1. PennyWise

    PennyWise Member

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    Anyone know if there is a way to calculate or estimate managed fund distributions before June 30 to enable Tax planning?

    The problem is fund distributions seem to include a large number of tax adjustments which are only reflected in the Tax statement that is sent around September for a Wrap account. This is too late to make tax deductions to offset these net distributions pre June 30! :confused:

    Therefore you only have the progressive quarterly distributions etc. throughout the year to go on which do not include these post June 30 tax adjustments let alone the last June 30 distribution! :(

    ie: If you had $50K of initial end of financial year distributions which were reduced to $23K after tax adjustments that were included in a post June 30 Wrap tax statement this would negate any tax planning you did pre June 30!

    This would seem to make it impossible to reasonably estimate ones Tax liability prior to June 30 in order to offset this with tax deductions like Superannuation contributions etc!!

    Wrap provider and accountant unable to offer any solutions to address this situation.

    Would be grateful for any ideas, suggestions or experiences.

    Regards,

    PW
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 18th Jun, 2008
  2. jabba_jones

    jabba_jones Well-Known Member

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    Try ringing the Manager for the funds you invest in. Fund Managers will calculate an estimated CPU and component information for funding purposes about now. I know wholesale clients will receive this estimate information (CFS has sent theres out this week)

    However as you said they may do the distribution as 100% unfranked and then reallocate it to the correct components in the final tax statements. You can always use last years component splits as a guide to get a rough idea of the income/capital gains/credits.

    With markets being as volatile as they are now even estimates could radically change if large losses were realised over the next week.
     
  3. PennyWise

    PennyWise Member

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    Yes, you would think the fund mangers would know something by now but they are not saying. Where did you source the CFS data that you mention? Can you PM me the info as I have a couple of CFS funds?

    I rang Vanguard and all they would say is to refer there web site which is all historical data! BT Wrap was also also just as helpful saying no end of year distribution data is available till at least June 30 and no tax adjustment/offset data before the September Tax statement.:(

    Using previous years income/capital gains/credits split data would seem to be a gamble at best and fraught with difficulty as it differs so much between financial years.

    How the heck does everyone else estimate net distribution income from managed funds before June 30 so as they can do effective tax planning?

    It seems that throwing darts at a board or spinning a chocolate wheel would be about as accurate as any other means I know given the lack of data. :eek:

    Would be grateful for any other ideas, suggestions or experiences.

    Regards,

    PW
     
  4. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    Platinum used to publish initial distribution estimates about a month before the end of financial year - along with all the usual disclaimers that they are subject to change etc.

    Platinum only distributes once a year though, so it is more useful for them to give out that information with no previous data for the year available.
     
  5. PennyWise

    PennyWise Member

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    Hi Sim,

    That would be helpful as I have their Asia fund but where do you get it from?

    Nothing on there website that I can see except for historical data.

    Regards,

    PW
     
  6. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    In previous years it was published on their website.

    Either they aren't publishing it this year, or they haven't published it yet. Can't remember exactly when it was published.
     
  7. tasmo

    tasmo Well-Known Member

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    Hi,

    Platinum still post distribution estimates on their website. Try under menu item 'Whats New'. The estimate for the Asia fund is 41.33 cents per unit which is about 16.53% of Wednesdays unit value.

    http://www.platinum.com.au/images/dist-est-2008.pdf

    They issued the first estimate about the start of the June.

    Cheers
     
  8. PennyWise

    PennyWise Member

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    Hi Tasmo,

    Thanx for the link and heads up.

    Now I just need to find some pre EOFY distribution data for my other funds:-

    Ausbil
    Souls
    CFS
    Portfolio Partners
    Perpetual
    BT Imputation
    UBS Property Securities
    Vanguard
    Dimensional

    Cheers,

    PW
     
  9. tasmo

    tasmo Well-Known Member

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    Hi Pennywise,
    Platinum in my opinion is unique in publishing accurate estimates of distributions for EOFY.

    For other fund managers I do my own estimates based on historical data published by fund managers usually in Fund profiles. Stats such as the annual distributions (capitalgains%/income%/franking%) over preceeding years that are usually published for marketing purposes. Then there is the progressive distributions for the current year to date (you would have already received, for your calculations) that can be taken into account, and subtracted from annual estimates for your estimates of the June distributions for your funds in question. That's my basic method which I factor in my guesstimate of discounted capital gains, normal income and franking credits based on profiles and previous years distributions.

    Cheers,

    Tasmo
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 20th Jun, 2008
  10. jabba_jones

    jabba_jones Well-Known Member

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    CFS Wholesale Estimate CPUs 30 June 2008

    Attached are the CFS Wholesale Estimate CPUs.

    Not your retail products will be lower due to the fee structure. I have full components (again estimates), if people are interested in these i'll compile it all together and post.

    CFS Disclaimer:

    The figures below are estimates only and are based upon the facts available to us at 15 June 2008: the final figures may differ from these estimates. We have provided these estimates in response to investor requests. Please be aware that many factors, including market movement and capital gain realisations in June, can substantially alter the figures. Colonial First State accepts no responsibility for any losses that may be incurred as a result of the final figures differing from these estimates.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. tasmo

    tasmo Well-Known Member

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    Jabba_Jones thanks for the CFS spreadsheet ,much appreciated. I could only find historical YTD distributions on the Colonial web site. I have also not received any email of their wholesale estimates. Did you need to request that information.

    Cheers
    Tasmo
     
  12. bella

    bella Well-Known Member

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    I just asked vanguard about this, their reply;

    bummer.
     
  13. PennyWise

    PennyWise Member

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    Thanx for that Bella. Saved me a call. :(

    You would think though that if anyone would have this information available before EOFY Vanguard should being a passive index fund manager! :eek:

    I did find Perpertual has some figures, albeit only as at 30/4/08 for anyone who is interested at:-

    http://perpetual.com.au/pdf/YearEndEstimatedDistributions.pdf

    Anyone got any figures or URl's for these funds:-

    Ausbil
    Souls
    Portfolio Partners
    BT Imputation
    UBS Property Securities
    Dimensional

    Would also be interested in Jabba's component/split dist. data for CFS. Might save me from another number crunching migraine. :)

    Cheers,

    PW
     
  14. jabba_jones

    jabba_jones Well-Known Member

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    CFS June 2008 Distribution Estimates

    Hello all,

    Attached are estimated distributions and component information. Please read the disclaimer.
     

    Attached Files:

    • CFS.xls
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  15. PennyWise

    PennyWise Member

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    Thanks for that Jabba.

    Having a bit of trouble though correlating the historical and estimated distribution data for funds other than CFS in the spreadsheet (SS).

    eg: The Ausbil Act Equity. and Emerging leaders wholesale Funds that I hold returned 5.4467 CPU and 3.6586 CPU YTD. They are are also estimated on the Ausbil site to return 4.2853 CPU and 2.3902 for June 30.

    Similar discrepancies for Souls hist. and est. data as well. CFS data in the SS correlates fine though for my CFS Global Resources Fund and CFS Wholesale Geared Share Fund.

    One thing I did note was the APIR codes were different for all but the CFS funds.

    eg: My Ausbil Act. Equity. and Emerging leaders wholesale Funds are AAP0103AU and AAP0104AU and my Souls Small Co. fund is FAM0101AU.

    Are these CFS variants of the original fund manger funds perhaps? Even so one would expect them to be similar distributions but they are wildly different!

    Cheers,

    PW
     
  16. jabba_jones

    jabba_jones Well-Known Member

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    If the APIR codes are different then they are more than likely different funds.
    Those figures I posted are for CFS funds, if they have a different managers name its could be CFS rebranding another manager's fund. i.e. CFS would be earning the difference between the MER they get charged and then on charge. Also the components will be slightly different due to holdings in cash, there own apps / reds realising cap gains.

    However it should be noted the same fund can have multiple APIR codes due to fee options (Nil entry Fee vs Entry Fee)
     
  17. Glebe

    Glebe Well-Known Member

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    You've got a few funds there! Diversification is great, but it comes at the cost of paperwork! :eek:
     
  18. samaka

    samaka Well-Known Member

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  19. ashwright

    ashwright Well-Known Member

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    Samaka, I think it was just the June distruption, the estimate seemed to match what came into my bank account.
     
  20. tropic

    tropic Well-Known Member

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    I called them before the 30th June and was told would be around 41.33 but the actual distribution is 34.48. So it's quite a bit out.
    I wonder if they did huge transaction just before the end of June to change the distribution that much?
    Does anyone know when the distribution will be paid?