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Investing in Navra Funds

Discussion in 'Managed Funds & Index Funds' started by lorrimer, 22nd Aug, 2006.

  1. lorrimer

    lorrimer Well-Known Member

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    I am considering investing in either the retail or wholesale fund.
    It would be a great help if others could share with me their experience of how they went about making their initial investment.
    Presumably if I were to invest through a financial adviser I would be up for commision fees that I could avoid by investing directly.
    But if I were to invest in the fund directly, is it then more difficult to leverage the investment?
    So I guess the real question is, go it alone or employ an adviser? Advantages/disadvantages?
    Thanks
     
  2. kevinb

    kevinb Well-Known Member

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    Hi Lorrimer

    Check out navra.com.au for course schedule, do course then make up your own mind alternatively download PDS then go for it.

    Rgds

    Kevinb
     
  3. Nigel Ward

    Nigel Ward Team InvestEd

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    Hi Lorrimer

    Kev is absolutely right. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, you must read all product disclosure statements and consider carefully whether any financial product meets your needs.

    If you have an accountant or existing financial adviser you should discuss your plans with them as well.

    The financial planning association has put out a brochure (downloadable from their website I think) which goes through the pros and cons of using a financial planner. Check it out here www.goodadvice.com.au

    ASIC also has some good money tips and general consumer advice on www.fido.gov.au

    In a nutshell, whilst a financial adviser will want a fee (most people don't work for free :rolleyes: ) you will have the benefit of their experience and expertise to guide you. Only you can make the decision whether that is or is not value for money.

    Good luck with it.

    Cheers
    N.
     
  4. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    Ignoring the issue of whether a financial planner is a good choice or not - from a purely technical point of view, I would suggest doing it yourself - especially if you don't mind filling out a few forms. I don't see the point in paying an advisor to fill out forms for you ... pay them for advice, but not for administration !

    If you have enough money to go wholesale, do so, it's a bit cheaper in regards to fees.

    No difference in getting leverage if you go direct, but some financial advisors might be able to get you a bit of a discount on margin loans - which is worth considering.

    I do it all myself - it's pretty straight forward. If you need help filling out the forms, just call the fund directly for help - they are only too happy to help you give them money :D
     
  5. TryHard

    TryHard Well-Known Member

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    I figure its like painting your house yourself or employing someone to do it. Probably looks a lot better when you employ someone, you also probably know WHY you're painting it, and how long its gonna last etc, and you can (try to) blame someone else if it all goes pear-shaped.

    In my case, I couldn't care less how the paint gets on there :) , and I have faith in the product, so I invest direct. At my peril :)

    However I see NI as a pretty conservative vehicle (not without its risks) that has seriously changed my life and way of thinking. For my personal circumstances (needing liquidity, income etc) the returns so far have been outstanding.

    I think Steve does a great job explaining its plusses and minuses at the courses, but it could be argued he is a little 'pro' Navra :) - so take the info and DD it anyway that makes YOU feel comfortable. then ...

    have fun ...
    Cheers
    Carl

    PS do the DD with open minded people you trust with relevant experience - if I listened to everyone offering a better alternative when I mentioned what I had in mind, I'd be bankrupt 3 times over.
     
  6. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    Obviously our experience with painters doesn't match yours. Painting is the one job I do tend to do , because I find I take a bit more time and care over it than someone who does it all the time .

    I'm with Sim , re financial planning. No one has the interest in your financial future that you have . Though that's assuming you have the ability and nouse to know who to listen to , and when people giving you advice have their own agenda ....:)

    See Change
     
  7. Dr Lobster

    Dr Lobster Well-Known Member

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    I agree See Change.

    However it really is a big ask to do the research on the products, evaluate their pros and cons, understand when they perform best, what they are best suited for, evaluating your own financial goals etc etc etc.

    And when you read the expert's opinions you get a number of conflicting views, shares are better than property, cfds are better than shares, o/s markets are better to trade than aust market etc etc etc

    Its no wonder that so many people get sold products that are not in their best interest but are in the interest of the seller of the product.

    And even though I take an active approach to my investing there is no way I can state I understand all of the options available to me.

    If it weren't for forums like this, SS and Reefcap I'd be stuck using financial advisors that were mere sales people. I know this because it was what I had done in the past, and it served me no benefit at all.

    This is simply how it is, its not right or wrong, just how it works. The govt's education programme won't change it, can't change it. Some people can do it well, others are mediocre and some may not be able to do it at all.

    I've played the guitar for 24 years and I still suck, other people pick it up in no time at all, they have a talent for it I do not.

    I also do not have a talent for investing. However I know why I will ultimately succeed.

    Compared to the effort I have put in my guitaring is lousy, but compared to people that do not play I know enough to sound good. I have no talent for it, but my talent lies in perserverance, determination and the ability to drive myself to dedicate time and effort. It took me a long long time to get where I am, and sometimes it was hard and sometimes (learning scales) it was boring, but I stuck at it and I have some very personal rewards to reap from it.

    This is why my investing will succeed.

    I'm not trying to blow my own horn here. My point is, no one cares as much as you about your financial future, learning about investments is hard work. Everyone starts at the same point regarding investment knowledge, some will acquire it easily and some won't, do not concern yourself with how others are doing. Set a realistic goal, and kick that goal, and then go again. You may even find that it gets easier.
     
  8. Leandro

    Leandro Well-Known Member

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    Very good post Dr Lobster. Very valid points you bring up. :)
     
  9. TryHard

    TryHard Well-Known Member

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    OK bad example, as I must admit I have hired some awful painters before, including a crew of 4 guys who turned up without brushes ! Maybe tiling would have been a better comparison - our tiler just finished after 2.5 weeks and I thank God I didn't try to do that myself. An example of liquidity being needed 'cos the cheeky sod now expects to be paid :)
     
  10. TakeStock

    TakeStock Well-Known Member

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    I agree with SeeChange regarding painting and TryHard regarding tiling.

    I have been involved with painting several properties and have developed a bit of a knack for it. It's also one of the reno jobs that you can repair if you make a mistake. ;) Tiling is one of the many jobs I leave to the professionals. I don't have all of the specialised tools they have and it would take me a long time to complete. I would rather take on more of a project managers role.
     
  11. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    I'd agree with the tiling example . I've wondered about trying it myself , so when we had our bathrooms recently tiles , I paid close attention , and realised this was definitily a job to leave for the experts.

    Investing . You at least need to know enought to know whther you're being fed b... sh.... :)

    See Change
     
  12. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    This is the problem I face with my parents. My father (a primary school teacher) recently retired and I'm not that happy with the financial advice he was given for how to deal with his retirement funds. Unfortunately they were not in a position to judge the merits of the advice - something I hope to help them with in the future (if they'll let me).
     
  13. TryHard

    TryHard Well-Known Member

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    And sorry yeah back on topic (my fault using bad analogies) - I guess though renovating and investing are similar - like Seech says, you need to know enough to tell someone's full of BS.

    Dependent on your skills and time available, you can probably do a lot of it yourself, and depending on the type (property/managed funds/direct shares vs. painting/tiling) one will probably allow a much bigger margin for error over the other !

    We're getting our new house painted by a guy who is an absolute artist and worth every cent - he's like Michaelangelo with a ute (plus its a whole house inside and out, and I'm sticking to my day job). I think of him like I do NavraInvest - I can buy the same paint (or shares), but the chances of having the time and skill to apply it for the best result are, for me anyway, limited :)

    If however some bloke in the street wanted 4% to refer me to the painter, I'd want to know what he's offering me that I won't get if I call the painter direct :D
     
  14. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    Haha - great analogy.

    The flip side of the argument of course is that if you are simply too busy to make the arrangements and look after the payment and everything, you could pay the guy something (up to 4%) to do it all for you. It's simply a question of how much is your time worth to you (my answer is "not 4% of several million dollars when all it takes is a couple of forms ... I'll do it myself.").
     
  15. lorrimer

    lorrimer Well-Known Member

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    Thanks everyone for your input. I never expected such a response, with home improvement tips thrown in as an added bonus!
    I must say I agree with the general consensus, I suppose I was looking for some reassurance from those with more experience and a little wiser in these matters than myself.
    I think that sometimes it does pay to employ a professional where to do the job one’s self would take ten times as long and wouldn’t be nearly as good. I suppose the ultimate goal for all of us would be to create enough wealth that we could simply employ someone to do all the tedious jobs and have more time to ourselves.
    However to pay even 1% commission on a large sum would really add up over the years and could have a major impact on the bottom line. So if it’s just a case of filling in and submitting some forms then as you said Sim, not worth it.
    On this subject Sim, would I apply for a margin loan at the time of applying for Navra units, or do you have to acquire the units in the fund first and then apply for a margin loan through another company?
    Carl (TryHard) I’ve sent you a PM, hope to hear from you if you have the time.
     
  16. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    Doesn't really matter how you do it - you can transfer existing units to a margin account if you've already invested.

    If you know you will be using a margin loan, it's probably easier to apply for the margin loan first and then as your first investment, send a cheque to the margin lender and have them purchase the Navra units for you (ask the margin lender what is required in regards to forms to be completed).
     
  17. Tropo

    Tropo Well-Known Member

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    I would argue with tiling example. When I saw how pro ("experts") tiled my two bathrooms + laundry I decided to tile the main area by myself (120 sq.m).
    Tiling is not that difficult but it's time consuming if you are not doing it every day for a living.
    It took me two months, but when job was done, I would say that most of the pro tilers could be my apprentices.
    Sure, you can not do everything by yourself, but I would be careful in selecting tradesmen.
    ;)
     
  18. TryHard

    TryHard Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to stay off topic (this was all my fault I know) but I love a good trades discussion !

    Tropo, if I tried to be as handy as you, and your 120 square metres took you 2 months, our latest job was 160 square metres of floor and 60 metres of walls, plus features and pebbles and all that finnicky stuff - so by my reckoning even if I got as good as you I wouldn't be finished by Christmas ! I'll post some photos of this bloke's work, and if you reckon he can be your apprentice, then expect a call - we have another one to do in a few months ! ;-)
     
  19. Tropo

    Tropo Well-Known Member

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    Hahahahaaa.... Guess what......I am not a handy person at all. But circumstances forced me to tile (for the second time in my life) the living area.
    You have to work every day if you want to tile a big area, otherwise you will finish by Christmas 2010.:p

    Check cuts around kitchen cupboards, door frames etc... Open space is not a big deal.
    Problem starts if tiler must cut sometimes complicated shapes around door frames etc...
    If distance between tiles is say 2 mm (using 2 mm spacers) it does not matter how complicated door frame is in shape, those 2 mm must be maintained in all directions. Waiting for your photos....:D :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 24th Aug, 2006