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Trading living from active trading?

Discussion in 'Shares' started by joanmc, 12th May, 2009.

  1. joanmc

    joanmc Well-Known Member

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    Hi All
    I was wondering if many here are making their living from trading? If so what sort of trading are you doing i.e. forex, shares, commodities? CFDs? How long have you been doing it?

    looking forward to hearing what others are doing.:)
     
  2. Tropo

    Tropo Well-Known Member

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    Forex...(I am also considering going back to SM).
     
  3. joanmc

    joanmc Well-Known Member

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    sado-masochism? LOL sorry Tropo what is SM? I am not up on the short hand yet:D
     
  4. Tropo

    Tropo Well-Known Member

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    SM = Stock Market :p
     
  5. joanmc

    joanmc Well-Known Member

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    :eek:
    I am soooo embarassed!!!:eek:
     
  6. jrc77

    jrc77 Well-Known Member

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    As a follow up question if I may .... for anyone out there living off trading or investing (with no other full time income) how much capital did you have when you ceased traditional fulltime work and what sort of return do you rely on getting from that capital?

    Regards,

    Jason
     
  7. joanmc

    joanmc Well-Known Member

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    Hi jason
    I use about 200k, 150 of that is borrowed funds against our rentals that are neutral geared (rent also covers the 150k). I am averaging 4k per week income from my trading so far (20 weeks so far).
    I also had about 50k in an account to live off while I was starting to trade, and I have further borrowings available that I keep as a safety net.( I have very high risk tolerance too:D)
    rgds Joan
     
  8. Tropo

    Tropo Well-Known Member

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    Do not worry. Keep $miling...;)
     
  9. Tropo

    Tropo Well-Known Member

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    Jason,

    The amount of capital you need depends on your income expectation and your trading skill.
    If your capital is say...200K, your annual return may be 40K/year = 20% return = bottom line IMHO.
    I would not recommend to trade with borrowed money, unless you are already successful as a part time trader.
     
  10. joanmc

    joanmc Well-Known Member

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    hmmm I agree with Tropo to a point about borrowed funds for trading. I should clarify my position too, I have no personal debt only investment debt AND I own my own home so I am only trading for my day to day living expemses (food, petrol etc)
    So I am comfortable trading with borrowed funds... I have a lot of safety nets up!
    If on the other hand I had a huge mortgage on my house, carloans etc etc...NO way would I borrow to trade.
     
  11. joanmc

    joanmc Well-Known Member

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    wow is that it? just me and Tropo? Ok who is heading that way and looking to share their experiences (good and bad)?

    Is anyone out there just having FUN with their investing? There seem to be a lot of very serious people here (not that there is anything wrong with that) but is there anyone who just gets a kick out of this stuff?

    I have really enjoyed my journey thus far but as all my friends don't do the type of things I am doing I am just itching to share with like minded people!:eek:

    C'mon are there any happy investors here???
     
  12. vovo

    vovo Member

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    I am enjoying my time on the market, whether trading or buying stocks for long term investment, I get a rush when the price nears my target price, then I check my order status to see if its been executed yet, then I either get the share or watch the stock price increase and pull away (I am small time though).

    Joan, how much time do you spend trading in a week (full time job type hours or a select few hours, if so how do you choose which hours to trade). What platform do you use for trading, do you trade the ASX or others FTSE, DOW etc. Tropo what platform do you use for currency trading?

    My first transaction on the market was last year October, I was buying as long term investments, then I lost my job (I was days away from completing my first year of full time employment), so stopped as I was not sure how long it would be before I was re-employed. I am getting more interested in trading as my appetite for risk seems to be reasonably high compared to others who seem to be steadfastly refusing to even look at the market at the moment.
     
  13. joanmc

    joanmc Well-Known Member

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    Hi Vovo
    I trade the asx using the westpac online broking platform. I am on when the market opens and I keep a record of the opening prices of the 25 odd shares that I trade. Then I decide what to buy if any put in my buys, put in my sells and go do the dishes!
    I check back periodically and if something has sold I pick another to buy so that all of my money is always in the market. I am often only looking for 400 or 500 from each trade and I buy a minimum of 1000 shares in a go.
    Then at 4.30pm I write the closing figures in my book . that's it.

    I rarely sit and watch it all day, only if it's a new share I am trying and it's really moving then I might put on the live streaming to watch:D

    I really love it though and I wish I had known about it years ago.
     
  14. C3PO

    C3PO Well-Known Member

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    Commodity futures (specifically crude palm oil futures in Malaysia) but only part time until the kids are at school.

    I agree - do not borrow to trade (especially futures, god knows there's enough leverage there already).

    Would love to get involved with the Australian stock market when time permits, but I'm not sure how the volatility/liquidity would compare.

    Joan it sounds like you are having a good experience so far in difficult times, well done. Just curious, how'd you pick the 25 stocks on your watch list?
     
  15. joanmc

    joanmc Well-Known Member

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    Hi C3PO
    I started with about 8 that were shares I knew.wbc, cba, bhp, rio, flt, sun. wow. then i watched as I got used to their daily fluctuations I added more in. I also read recommendations in magazines and then if I understand the business I will put it on my list and start watching it.
    I just counted and my list is now 30 but some of them I am thinking of dropping, they don't have a good enough volume.

    I guess I really stick to KISS. I don't confuse my self with techno babble that I don't understand. I apply the same reasonings to my property investments too.
     
  16. dostortugas

    dostortugas Active Member

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    currently trading SPA3 through my SMSF and happy with it. not much to do lately just hold onto positions and watch them go up!

    got a bucket of money i'm looking to trade. thinking of splitting it up like so:

    60% - SPA3 (long, stocks only ASX)
    20% - SPA3CFD (long, CFDs only ASX)
    10% - a few ETFs to get asian coverage
    10% - play money on forex, futures

    love this stuff, but finding it hard to get the time to expand my knowledge. there is so much out there to learn and i have a habit to "diversify" my knowledge and not nail down individual topics. working on it.
     
  17. vovo

    vovo Member

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    So if you are buying a minimum of 1000 shares in a hit, buying 1000 BHP would be committing quite a lot of your 200k to the pot.

    How long do you sit on a stock, day, week, no set limit.

    Do you put in sell prices when you buy a new share, do you use conditional trades or do you manually set them up.

    Just a question to the general public. If I was for example to buy 1000 BHP at $30 and I was wanted to take profits at 5% or exit at 5%, how would I set this up, I have often thought about setting up two manual sell orders for $31.5 and $28.5, but what would happen if I was at an all day meeting and the shares climbed to $32 before dropping to $28, then returning to $30. Would both those sell orders get executed or would Commsec understand what was going on.
     
  18. C3PO

    C3PO Well-Known Member

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    You just do a "OCO" order (One Cancels Other) whereby if the order to sell at $32 was done then the order at $28 would be cancelled, or vice vera

    Apparently Commsec has a "Conditional Trading" section where you can set this sort of order up
     
  19. joanmc

    joanmc Well-Known Member

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    Hi Vovo
    I aim to only sit one maybe two days at most. As I am only looking for what that share moves usually in one day. For example Rio usually moves at least $1 per day, bhp you might get 75 or 50 cents, wbc 30 cents ,sun 20 cents (but I would buy 2000). I have often bought rio and held over night as it can open much higher than the $1 difference (putting the sell in the day before).

    Also as all of my shares have been vetted for their stability as a company and I have looked over their financials, if I feel a drop in value is a temporary glitch I will hold it until it recovers.

    I have had a few though that I have chosen to take losses on so that I can put the money back into the market with something else. eg I had some rio the other week that I had bought at over 70, had a gut feeling the next day when it started to tank so I sold it and it dropped back to 57!!! I lost about 6000 all up but if I had held it that time I would have lost a lot more(had 2000).

    I know my strategy is not sexy compared to some but I am averaging 4000 per week so far (that is taking into account my losses as well, best week 18000 profit, worst week 250 loss), so I can't see me changing my strategy sometime soon!LOL:D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 28th May, 2009
  20. dostortugas

    dostortugas Active Member

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    you've only been trading over the last 20 weeks though - any one could have made profits over the last 20 weeks as the index has had its best run in years. it wont always be that way. you may have to re check your strategy/ trading plan /trading system for when the market moves in other directions. no offence intended, but making a profit over the last 20 weeks was really childs play