Join our investing community

Managed Fund suggestions ?

Discussion in 'Managed Funds & Index Funds' started by Simon Hampel, 26th Aug, 2005.

  1. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    9th Jun, 2005
    Posts:
    4,623
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Okay - time for some suggestions of good fund managers and funds to consider when looking to diversify our portfolio a little.

    We all know how great the NavraInvest funds are :D - but let's look a little further afield ... what do other people invest in, or what do you suggest we consider as options for good funds ?

    Is international shares a good way to go ? Japan seems to be picking up ? IT&T has been a bit depressed of late - time for a pick up ? Geared Australian share funds seem to have done extremely well with the strongly rising local market of late - now that we are at new highs is it a bad time to be looking at those options ? How about smallcaps ? How about biotech ?

    Thoughts ?
     
  2. Gonzo

    Gonzo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16th Aug, 2005
    Posts:
    49
    Location:
    Singapore
    I've been a fan of the Platinum Funds for a while. The international fund and european fund are two that I've been involved in. The European is a subset of the International but I wanted extra Euro exposure so I dipped into them as well.

    Platinum isn't considered a true mutual fund, as the managers are allowed to short when they think the time is ripe.

    They were doing quite good up until last year where they were ok, but not great.

    I found one of the best Fund comparison sites is Fairfax's TradingRoom which allows you to setup fund watchlists.
     
  3. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    9th Jun, 2005
    Posts:
    4,623
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Do you know what the general consensus is as to why they didn't do so great last year ?
     
  4. Gonzo

    Gonzo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16th Aug, 2005
    Posts:
    49
    Location:
    Singapore
    I haven't yet read the end of year report they sent through, but I'll make an effort to look at it tonight and see what insights it gives.

    One common trend I've seen with many funds is as they get bigger is that they have too much money to work with and they can't be as dynamic as they were initially. I'm not sure if this was platinum's issue though, just my own speculation.
     
  5. Tom&Don

    Tom&Don Active Member

    Joined:
    16th Aug, 2005
    Posts:
    44
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I recall reading that they stuffed up by shorting when they shouldnt have.

    Its a two way street after all eh.

    I'm still impressed with Kerr and the team, they seem to have a good basis for their fundamental analysis, and then buy on value.

    I actually like their international brands fund.

    I like it.
     
  6. mikhaila

    mikhaila Member

    Joined:
    17th Aug, 2005
    Posts:
    14
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I invest with Platinum Asset Management (PMC) and I have shares of the company, similar to NavraInvest actually ;). The PMC is an absolutely brilliant manager. They have several funds - some of them performed poorly (-0.21%) and some performed fantastically ( +59.11%) last year. Here is a link to latest info http://www.platinum.com.au/reports/web_all.pdf

    The relatively poor performance was due to “… currencies and the weighting of the disposition of the Company assets were the culprits” according to their 2005 Investment’s Manager Report. They lost about 3% in shorting. I wouldn’t call it stuff up, as shorting on a rising market is simply an insurance. The report itself is well thought and researched document. It is well worth reading.

    I use International Brands and Japan Fund. As Sim mentioned, technology being lagging for some time and I was thinking putting some money into Platinum Technology Fund, but I want to see the upward movement first.

    I also diversified with Vanguard Property index fund. It is an income fund and they charge 0.34% management fee.

    Perpertual Industrial fund also in my portfolio and it deserves serious consideration.

    M.
     
  7. Glebe

    Glebe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    15th Aug, 2005
    Posts:
    932
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW
    I used to be a big fan of Hunter Hall, but they seem to have dropped the ball over the last couple of years.

    Platinum Asia has been doing 33% or so (so I'm told). If I had spare cash I'd go Platinum. In fact I'm in Platinum International.

    I'm also in an Axa Property Fund which returned about 7.5% for a half-yearly distribution :)
     
  8. johnnyb

    johnnyb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16th Aug, 2005
    Posts:
    190
    Location:
    Hobart
    I've just been looking at diversifying my investment in managed funds. I have some money in Navra, but as a risk management strategy I wanted to put some into other funds as well. My financial advisor has suggested some to look at, including some mentioned above.

    Included in the list are the UBS Property Security Fund, and the APN Property for Income Fund. I'm relatively new to the world in managed funds and have a question about these types of property funds - is the performance of property based funds closely linked to the performance of the property market itself? I guess to answer this question you need to understand the type of property the fund invests in (residential, commercial, which regions, etc).

    Also in my list are some share funds. It's hard to compare Navra to the others as Navra only has a short history. I'm looking at 3 Australian share funds (Vanguard, Tyndall and Challenger). The graphs of their returns over the last 5 years look very similar - typically 15-30% returns apart from a big dip to negative figures for 6 - 12 months in 02/03. If they have similar returns what other factors are important in choosing between funds (apart from fees)?

    I'm also looking at the Vanguard and Platinum international funds. The returns for the Vanguard fund over the last few years scare me. From 01 - 03 it averages about -20%, and from 03 - 05 it averages about +20%. If I was using this fund as a holding pond for property investing funds for those first couple of years it would certainly have put a hole in my investing capability.

    John.
     
  9. NickM

    NickM Co-founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2005
    Posts:
    321
    Location:
    Sydney
    I have invested in Hunter Hall which has not been brilliant (as Glebe pointed out) but steady.

    APN for property has returned around 9-9.5%
    I am also in JB Were emerging leaders. This had quite a few poor years but returned 35% in 05.

    For diversity i threw a few dollars in Mariner's Opera House Car park Fund - which hopefully will return enough cashflow over the next 35 years. That is when the lease expires.

    Navra Blue Chip holds a chunk in my portfolio as well.

    I toyed with the Macquarie Leisure trust last year but never got around to investing (approx 75% return for 05 !)
     
  10. pudsa

    pudsa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Oct, 2005
    Posts:
    55
    So what do people recommend?

    Hi all,
    Have read the above posts with great interest. Like a couple of others I to am new to managed funds. Well not entirely new having been invested a couple of times over the years and having copped a couple of hidings. So much so that I've stuck with property until recently. However am now looking to move back into managed funds (think property is going to be fairly flat for a while) and would appreciate one or two strong thoughts to give some real pointers. Am currently in Navra Retail fund and am quite happy with fund performance but would like to spread a bit wider. Like some others I have noted a tendancy for strongly performing funds to under perform and/or go backwards as they get larger. Therefore I view strong growth in FUM with wariness, would appreciate others thoughts on this aspect based on experiences and observation.
    Cheers :)
     
  11. Tropo

    Tropo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    17th Aug, 2005
    Posts:
    3,396
    Location:
    NSW
    International shares is the way to go. Our super (exposed to international markets) delivered approx. 50% this year.
    BUT .... as long as market is trending up everybody is making money. During the bad times most of the players are loosing money.
    Why do not consider funds trading: options, futures or currency? It needs some work to find out any of them.

    " How about smallcaps ? How about biotech ? "
    = may be a good idea IF traded correctly !!
    :cool:
     
  12. MichaelWhyte

    MichaelWhyte Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    5th Oct, 2005
    Posts:
    798
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW
    Guys,

    When considering which market or asset class to invest in, the following may be of use to you:

    http://www.amp.com.au/display/file/...6,00.pdf?filename=olivers_insights_150306.pdf

    I am currently in the process of diversifying my portfolio to the following, with the assistance of Mark Raymond from Navra Financial Services (NFS):

    Platinum Japan
    Platinum Asia
    Platinum International
    NavTrade US
    Ralton DPS3 - ASX All Cap

    I'm adopting almost equal weightings in each, but slightly higher in both the NavTrade US and the Ralton Aus funds to offset the fact I'm doubling up in Asia by going Asia plus Japan. The international should also just give me some spread including some Europe exposure.

    You'll also note that I'm getting out of the NavTrade Aus fund completely, but keeping my exposure to the DCT methodology via the US fund as I think it should perform better there. I'm adopting a value based growth fund in Australia for my ASX exposure.

    Of course, this is just my equities portfolio. I'm further diversified with Aus Residential property via direct investment so don't see the need to add a listed property trust into the mix. I've also got $20-30K in speculative investments and a fair whack of cash on the sidelines. I need to consider some gold exposure for the diversification benefits it gives due to its strong negative correlations as I posted here some time back when it was still around US$500 an ounce.

    Cheers,
    Michael.
     
  13. pudsa

    pudsa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Oct, 2005
    Posts:
    55
    Diversification

    Hi all, enjoyed the discussion on diversification/managed funds of a month or so back. Wasn't in a position to consider investing at that time but things have changed a little. Am strongly into Navra retail and quite happy (looking with interest at fund performance at the correction we are currently having) but am looking to diversify. Noted comments on Platinum Asia, Japan and International in earlier discussion and would appreciate opinion on whether they are still considered a good diversification vehicle. Would like (need) some income but am in for the medium haul so capital growth is important.
    Cheers
    Pudsa :)
     
  14. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    9th Jun, 2005
    Posts:
    4,623
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    The Platinum funds only pay income once per annum (end of financial year), so if cashflow is important - these are probably not the best funds for you.

    According to my Tradingroom.com.au portfolio watchlist ... here are the returns being reported:


    ............................. 6 month . 1 year .. 2 year .. 3 year .. 5 year .. 7 year
    Platinum International Fund . 17.27 ... 32.83 ... 14.18 ... 19.99 ... 11.01 ... 19.30
    Platinum Japan Fund ......... 14.26 ... 43.65 ... 22.82 ... 30.55 ... 14.03 ... 20.85
    Platinum European Fund ...... 22.33 ... 35.31 ... 18.21 ... 23.40 ... 10.98 ... 22.90
    Platinum Int Brands Fund .... 21.31 ... 39.29 ... 27.61 ... 27.52 ... 19.40 ..... -
    Platinum Asia Fund .......... 29.40 ... 46.29 ... 37.98 ... 42.40 ..... - ....... -


    ... of course, past performance is no indication of future performance!

    These funds also tend to be fairly volatile - so if negative returns over the short to medium term are of concern to you, then again, they are probably not the best fund for you.
     
  15. MrDarcy

    MrDarcy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    13th Sep, 2005
    Posts:
    283
    Location:
    Sydney
    Last night Peter Spann was promoting

    - Macquarie Property Income fund
    - Colonial FS geared share fund
    - new fund called Octane Asia with 100% finance and captital protection
    - Timbercorp trees :eek:

    Growth and income funds to choose from there.
     
  16. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    9th Jun, 2005
    Posts:
    4,623
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Given that I haven't researched the fund, I'd be curious to know what mechanisms the CFS Geared Share Fund has in place to limit their exposure to a falling market ? Especially given their internal gearing will magnify losses.

    There is no doubting that they have done extremely well from the extended bull market ... a great example of the power of gearing in investment.

    ... according to tradingroom.com.au, they were 12.73% in cash at the end of April - so I guess that's one way of limiting their exposure ... increasing cash holdings as the market rises.
     
  17. KevinH

    KevinH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    6th Nov, 2005
    Posts:
    101
    Do you know who is behind the fund ?
    ie...is it Octane or is that the name of the fund ?

    Kevin
     
  18. MrDarcy

    MrDarcy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    13th Sep, 2005
    Posts:
    283
    Location:
    Sydney
    Octane Asia Fund by HFA Asset Management.

    www.hfainvestments.com.au

    It's an abolsute return fund made up of about 20 other Asian AR funds.

    Internally geared up to 100% by UBS, available with 100% captital protection at maturity in 2014, with 100% fixed finance at 8.45%.

    Stuff all if any income. target returns 10-15% PA. Redeemable after 12 months.
     
  19. KevinH

    KevinH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    6th Nov, 2005
    Posts:
    101
    Thanks,
    I preferred the Mac products.
    Better interest rate, and some income as well.

    Interesting comment on fundbroker.com.au that if you go direct to Octane Asia, you pay the up front fee regardless, but if you go via them, they at least rebate a big percentage of it ??

    Seems strange that the fund penalises you by going direct.

    Kevin
     
  20. MrDarcy

    MrDarcy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    13th Sep, 2005
    Posts:
    283
    Location:
    Sydney
    Maybe to protect planner's market, like wholesalers who will only sell to the public at retail prices so as not to undercut their dealers.

    Maquarie do this too I think.

    Anyhow, this product is too inflexable for my needs, prefer to go with Platinum Asia and Japan. I can get better margin rates for these, but of course not 100% LVR and not capital protection.