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navra cash position

Discussion in 'Managed Funds & Index Funds' started by dkmc, 18th Aug, 2007.

  1. dkmc

    dkmc Well-Known Member

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    Anyone else notice navras cash in the latest report
    31st july its only 20%
    wasnt it 30% the month before
    so it spent up big in july
    This is before the correction

    I wonder how much more it spent before the corerection

    It may not have had much cash to take advantage of the drop

    Also it means that the market has to creep up a lot before we see
    the value add

    No evidence of outperformance and a fixed MER that it has to overcome
    for return
    dkmc
     
  2. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    Looks like outperformance to me:

    Navra AUS Wholesale: -7.24%
    XJO - ASX 200 Index: -8.98%
     
  3. handyandy

    handyandy Well-Known Member

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    Just happened to be discussing this with a mate who was in contact with Navra on Thursday.

    He was told that they were at about 50% cash.

    Most probably find that it is very dynamic.

    Cheers
     
  4. dkmc

    dkmc Well-Known Member

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    Sim however to be fair you would have 20% cash, 80% XJO = -7.2%
    so same
    no out performance

    or 30% cash 70% xjo = -6.3%
     
  5. gazza

    gazza Well-Known Member

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    Handyandy

    Don't know who the person at Navra was that said they were at 50% cash on Thursday but I spoke to Steve that same day (I had some margin call concerns :( ) and he said they were at about 9% cash.

    In terms of outperformance, he also mentioned they were outperforming the index and would be preferred to be still using that as a criteria for earning a fee rather than the flat fee that was introduced as the company would have been earning a lot more.

    Gazza
     
  6. JIT

    JIT Well-Known Member

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    So they get paid for this 'outpeformance' even though you're losing money???

    GSJ
     
  7. voigtstr

    voigtstr Well-Known Member

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    No, I think we moved to a flat fee model. Outperformance is outperformance though.. having your money in navra instead of generally in the asx 200 would have saved you 1.74%. How is that a bad thing?
     
  8. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    Not anymore.

    This is one of the reasons I was actually in favour of the flat-fee model, for exactly situations like this. The out-performance fee was calculated on anything above the ASX200 return, regardless of whether it was a positive or negative return. The argument of course is that they have saved you money if they drop less than the ASX200 does - but it starts to get difficult to maintain the moral high ground.

    I think a flat fee is fairer all round - you know exactly how much you will pay each year in fees, and it all balances out over time.
     
  9. coopranos

    coopranos Well-Known Member

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    I would be disappointed if they were sitting on 50% cash reserves after the recent share price plummets, that is exactly the volatility they have been waiting for - and the lack of volatility is the whole reason given for underperformance against the index (until a small outperformance recently).
    If they dont significantly outperform during the next few months (assuming some sort of market bounce which is probably pretty likely now after news from the US on friday - maybe not a sustainable bounce but at least a bounce) then questions would probably need to be asked
     
  10. Leandro

    Leandro Well-Known Member

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    I always thought that Navra's historical fee model was unique in that it only charged in outperformance of the index.

    However, in a recent Smart Investor they listed the top 10 boutique managed funds, which Navra was one of and there were a few performance fee only ones. I believe one or two of them also only charged in a positive outperformance i.e. if return was greater than 0% and above index that it was being compared against.
     
  11. Smartypants

    Smartypants Well-Known Member

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    Within this thread, percentages of 20% 30% 50% & 9% have been mentioned as to how much cash the fund has/was holding.

    Just wondering if anyone got clarification on the ACTUAL amount.
     
  12. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    I don't have exact details, but Steve mentioned to me yesterday that the fund was at around 47% cash at the end of the financial year, and got down to around 12% cash at the bottom of the drop last week.
     
  13. voigtstr

    voigtstr Well-Known Member

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    Nice! Thats certainly an indication that the fund was buying on the way down, and should make some nice profits on the way up.
     
  14. Simon

    Simon Well-Known Member

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    especially after todays 140 point rise.... :D

    When should we see this reflected in the unit price? Or will we?
     
  15. MichaelWhyte

    MichaelWhyte Well-Known Member

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    I'll let you know! Watch that other thread and I'll post the unit price chart when the ASX200 cracks 6400 again and we'll see how she really performs through the "perfect" correction! :D

    Cheers,
    Michael.
     
  16. Smartypants

    Smartypants Well-Known Member

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    That's what I was thinking too.

    Tis why I asked the question. Thought Sim would know the answer :) , the champion that he is.
     
  17. voigtstr

    voigtstr Well-Known Member

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    The big question is....will the trading profits be greater or less than the recent capitol loss?