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navra vs other managed funds

Discussion in 'Managed Funds & Index Funds' started by brookelea, 23rd Jan, 2008.

  1. brookelea

    brookelea Member

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    greetings, have been lurking for a while and finally have summoned up enough courage to enquire about navra and other managed funds..
    what is the difference between them??

    are the navra management fees high??
    and what should i look for in a fund??

    thanks!!
     
  2. samaka

    samaka Well-Known Member

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    How soon will you need all your money back - a year, 5, 10?

    Do you need 'income' from the fund (i.e. to pay down a home loan, or interest on an investment property) OR...

    Do you need 'growth' - meaning you want the value of your money to increase - but you don't necessarily need to use it on anything for a long time.

    Navra is regarded as an 'income' generating fund. Most people use it because it makes regular payments every quarter - which the use for holding other investments.
     
  3. brookelea

    brookelea Member

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    thanks samaka,

    actually i wouldn't mind a bit of growth and income..

    is that possible with this fund??
     
  4. samaka

    samaka Well-Known Member

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    In previous years yes, however currently it doesn't look to good.

    Profile: Navra Blue Chip Australian Share Retail Fund (NAV0001AU)

    [chart=CF;NAV0001AU;lasty;mav;20080123]Navra Blue Chip Australian Share Retail Fund[/chart]

    You're much better deciding whether you are looking for growth or income - then tailoring your investment portfolio based on that.

    What are your investment goals? How long till you plan to retire?
     
  5. redrover

    redrover Well-Known Member

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    Down to 1% cash - out snookered themselves well and truly!! Might have bought on the way down as "good value stocks" got cheaper, but needs a big turn around in the market before any of it can be realised.
     
  6. Alan

    Alan Well-Known Member

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    Hi.

    You'll hear a lot about this type of Fund from various sources but personally I think one of its major benefits is as part of an overall structure. To explain the recommended structure goes beyond the Fund.

    They have a one day Course/Presentationon in February. I've been and found it excellent value. If you want to go along and get answers direct 'from the horse's mouth', details are as follows:

    Navra Financial Services
     
  7. Redwing

    Redwing Well-Known Member

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    How do you find out what % is held in cash?

    Would they not have realised some gains today as the Market Bounced, then settled?
     
  8. brookelea

    brookelea Member

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    thanks for all the responses..

    goals: to pay off mortgage, to finish paying off private school fees
    to buy an ip within 3-5 years..

    i'm in my thirties so i'm not planning on retiring anytime soon.. planning on having choices however..

    thus the confusion for me deciding on income vs growth..
    it seems as if i need both..
     
  9. brookelea

    brookelea Member

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    thanks for the link.. i looked it up and can't believe that they don't have one in melbourne!! very frustrating :mad:
     
  10. samaka

    samaka Well-Known Member

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    I assume this is your principal place of residence (PPOR) and you have principal & interest (P&I) loan. If so you should read up on 'debt recycling' - which involves converting your current loan, which would not be tax deductible, into one that is tax deductible.
     
  11. Alan

    Alan Well-Known Member

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    Sorry about that, I didn't notice the Melbourne location. :eek:

    I don't know if they still run Melbourne Courses. I know they did one in Perth a while back so Steve may be doing one in Melbourne. Suggest you ring the office and ask..... :)
     
  12. brookelea

    brookelea Member

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    just read up on the thread re debt recycling.. there is a higher probability that i will fly to the moon than actually understand anything on the thread!!

    i am financially illiterate :(
    hopefully my tenure here will enlighten me and recede my ignorance that has been plaguing me for the better part of the last two decades..

    thanks :)
     
  13. coopranos

    coopranos Well-Known Member

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    Redwing
    I doubt it. If the claim is true they are sitting on a low amount of cash, then their benefit is effectively wiped out on big declines.
    Their cost base for their purchases would still remain at levels above where we sit now. If the market now just climbs on back to new highs, Navra *should* outperform the market until it reachs the point where it first started buying (on the way down). At this point it will start underperforming the market again.

    Navra is correct in that their method will work in a volatile market, however they dont state that in order for them to outperform the volatility has to be within a certain range. When it drops below this range it becomes just like every other fund (remember the only reason it outperforms on the way down is that it holds cash, when the cash is gone so is the outperformance), and when it goes above this range its underperforms also (at this point it has less shares and higher cash).
    Of course trading in such a range means that the index will not actually show any significant (or any at all) growth, so beating the market would probably not be too hard anyway (ie with cash)

    This is obviously my own conclusions and observations, they may be entirely incorrect and if so please point it out!
     
  14. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    For comparison purposes, here is a chart of the Navra W/S fund, CFS W/S Geared share fund and the XJO index:

    [chart=CC;NAV0002AU,FSF0043AU,XJO;thisy;5;20080124]NAV0002AU,FSF0043AU,XJO[/chart]

    ... notice how the swings of the geared share fund are far higher - in both directions. If you can hold this fund during the down times (which generally means not holding via a margin loan unless you use LVRs so low that I wouldn't know why you'd bother). then over the long term it will generally outperform anything.

    The trick would be to compare the geared fund held without external gearing versus a regular growth fund (or even Navra) held with say 50% gearing via margin loan to compare the overall returns. It may well be that the cheap finance the geared fund can presumably access, plus their (hopefully) professional management of the gearing facility would mean it will outperform a DIY approach ?

    The swings of the Navra fund are a little less than the index - again in both directions.

    If you look at the long term charts for Navra vs the index, I suspect you'll find that out/under performance of the fund depends largely on timing - depends on what the market is doing at the time! That's in a strongly growing market though ... will be interesting to see if the current trend continues.
     
  15. JIT

    JIT Well-Known Member

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    How can you make ANY sort of comparison of a type of hedge fund against these indices?! :confused:
     
  16. coopranos

    coopranos Well-Known Member

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    So now Navra is a hedge fund??
     
  17. Rod_WA

    Rod_WA Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sim

    That chart deserves a closer look.

    Of course CFS geared is an amplified version of the index, no surprises there.

    If this is indeed XJO (not ASX200 Accumulated) then I reckon Navra is looking extra good, with slight outperformance of the ASX200 (which is all we can hope for from a managed fund), plus useful income along the way, which is designed to be in excess of the regular market dividends.

    If Navra can return 10% income AND outperform the ASX, then it is a great result.

    I'm not a Navra holder, but I plan to watch the performance closely in the next few months.
     
  18. Tropo

    Tropo Well-Known Member

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  19. coopranos

    coopranos Well-Known Member

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  20. Tropo

    Tropo Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure what you are taking about :eek: