ASX Shares Platinum IPO

Discussion in 'Shares & Funds' started by Nigel Ward, 13th Apr, 2007.

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  1. Nigel Ward

    Nigel Ward Well-Known Member

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    I see Kerr Neilson is floating his funds management business.

    Anyone thinking of investing?

    Cheers
    N.
     
    Nigel Ward, 13th Apr, 2007
    #1
  2. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    I'm very tempted ... although that doesn't fit with my current strategy.
     
    Simon Hampel, 13th Apr, 2007
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  3. Mark Laszczuk

    Mark Laszczuk Well-Known Member

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    For those that are getting excited - you need to be a commsec or Bell Potter client to access the IPO.

    It's very interesting - he's only selling to retail investors and already people are fizzing to get in. Not that that is a surprise, the guy is the best funds manager in Australia. Tips are that it's going to be very difficult to get shares, unless you know someone.

    Mark
     
    Mark Laszczuk, 13th Apr, 2007
    #3
  4. MJK__

    MJK__ Well-Known Member

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    Mark,

    If he's the best fund manager around I'd like to see some better results from the Platinum International fund. Its only achieved a measly 3-4% YTD.:(

    MJK
     
    MJK__, 13th Apr, 2007
    #4
  5. Mark Laszczuk

    Mark Laszczuk Well-Known Member

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    Lol, it never ceases to amaze me how some people think. What do you want from the guy MJK? 10% a month? Seriously....

    Mark
     
    Mark Laszczuk, 13th Apr, 2007
    #5
  6. Mark Laszczuk

    Mark Laszczuk Well-Known Member

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    Mark Laszczuk, 13th Apr, 2007
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  7. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    5 year total performance (not annualised), assuming reinvested distributions:

    217.8% Platinum Asia (just over 4 years since inception)
    99.1% Platinum International Brands
    89.8% NavraInvest W/S AUS Blue Chip (< 4 years since inception)
    79.2% Platinum European
    76.2% Platinum Japan
    51.4% Platinum International

    1 year performance assuming reinvested distributions:

    18.4% NavraInvest W/S AUS Blue Chip
    12.75% Platinum European
    7.0% Platinum Asia
    6.0% Platinum International Brands
    1.09% Platinum International
    -9.15% Platinum Japan


    ... which shows pretty well why I no longer hold any of the Platinum funds other than Platinum Asia.

    I still like the Platinum International Brands and it is on my short list, but its recent performance hasn't justified its re-inclusion in my portfolio.

    In general, I do like the investment style of Platinum, but I won't invest in something that isn't performing consistently.
     
    Simon Hampel, 13th Apr, 2007
    #7
  8. Glebe

    Glebe Well-Known Member

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    I considered it but won't buy in. I can't afford to leverage further. But for those that can I think it's a good investment, it should be cashflow neutral within 2 or 3 years so long as dividends grow 30% over this period.
     
    Glebe, 13th Apr, 2007
    #8
  9. MJK__

    MJK__ Well-Known Member

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    :eek:
    No not 10% per month but 10% a year would be my minimum. Is that too much to ask for from the worlds best?:confused:

    MJK
     
    MJK__, 13th Apr, 2007
    #9
  10. MJK__

    MJK__ Well-Known Member

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    I suppose what I'd really like to know is if a turn around for this fund is anticipated. I havn't exited the fund in this hope.

    I am invested in 11 funds all together and the only one that is not performing this year is Platinum Int. My other International shares fund with Vanguard is killing it.

    Opinion welcome.

    MJK
     
    MJK__, 13th Apr, 2007
    #10
  11. Mark Laszczuk

    Mark Laszczuk Well-Known Member

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    And you would get it. Let's say it did 3% for the three months to end of March. That is 12% for the year, annualised. If 4% then that's 16% annualised. I don't really understand your complaint.

    Also, when did I say Kerr Neilsen was the world's best? Speaking of which, Berkshire Hathaway owns part of Platinum.

    Mark
     
    Mark Laszczuk, 13th Apr, 2007
    #11
  12. MJK__

    MJK__ Well-Known Member

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    When I say year to date I mean the financial year not since Jan. Maybe thats where we are getting mixed up.
    Sims post says it all as his figures are usually much more acurate than mine. I dont think PI will achieve a decent result this FY06/07.

    I am hoping for a turn around. I've only 30K in PI but am considering moving it to Vanguard. I think some analyst expect a rebound soon though ?

    MJK
     
    MJK__, 13th Apr, 2007
    #12
  13. MJK__

    MJK__ Well-Known Member

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    I don't doubt KN's ability but I wonder whats going on when the fund I'm talking about is underperforming its rivals.

    MJK
     
    MJK__, 13th Apr, 2007
    #13
  14. Nigel Ward

    Nigel Ward Well-Known Member

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    Sim

    Is that figure right for Platinum International? I thought I'd seen in their figures that the 10 year annual performance was about 17%...
     
    Nigel Ward, 13th Apr, 2007
    #14
  15. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    Yup - this is why (despite using them in my previous example), I really really hate the fund management industry's use of rolling historic figures ... they give completely misleading performance stats ... especially if you have one of two stellar years (like Platinum International did early on).

    Platinum International annual returns - financial year ending 30th June:

    1995 7.44%
    1996 20.99%
    1997 18.61%
    1998 23.41%
    1999 7.91%
    2000 51.53%
    2001 20.92%
    2002 10.36%
    2003 -6.12%
    2004 28.28%
    2005 -1.29%
    2006 25.46%
    2007 3.76% (to April 11)

    ... a 50% return in 2000 will boost the 10 year returns figures for a while longer yet !!

    If we ignore the current incomplete financial year, we get the following average returns to June 30 2006:

    12 years: 17.29%
    10 years: 17.91%
    7 years: 18.45%
    5 years: 11.34%
    3 years: 17.48%

    2002 was very average
    2003 was crap (negative)
    2004 was quite good (28%)
    2005 was bad (negative)
    2006 was quite good (25%)
    2007 so far is looking worse-than-average


    I've mentioned it before ... it was this one great result in 2000 that made me believe that Platinum International was going to be a good investment - because it showed the long term returns being much higher than the current average was. You can't just take a long term average as gospel - you have to look at the actual data so you can understand it !! Similar thing happened with the Platinum Japan fund ... it had some amazing returns early in its life - but since then has been very sporadic in its performance (and indeed is performing horribly at the moment - very negative).
     
    Simon Hampel, 13th Apr, 2007
    #15
  16. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    Just to follow on from my previous post - since I discovered this problem with fund statistics, I have significantly changed my strategy.

    I still use long term averages to build my short list, but I only use 20 and 50 day moving averages to determine what to actually invest in, with 5 day and 30 day performance figures to identify my focal funds on a day-by-day basis.

    Rather than a focus on what has happened in the past, I'm much more focussed on what is happening right now.
     
    Simon Hampel, 13th Apr, 2007
    #16
  17. Meisterin

    Meisterin Well-Known Member

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    Sim just a simple question, where do you get historical performance data of the fund? Or do you work it out from the figures given on individual websites?

    I can now see how 3 year 5year 10 year performance figures could be misleading.

    Thanks for the insight.
     
    Meisterin, 13th Apr, 2007
    #17
  18. MJK__

    MJK__ Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you Sim, regarding present performance over past!!!:cool:

    But I suspect your data collection system is much more sophisticated than mine.

    My method is to invest in recommended funds with small amounts and the track monthly performance. If performance is good I top up if not I tend to hold.

    Very rudimentary but it serves me well.:eek:

    MJK
     
    MJK__, 13th Apr, 2007
    #18
  19. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    At the moment I calculate it myself using the raw historic unit price data provided by the fund managers.

    I want a more reliable source of data (eg S&P or Morningstar) - but of course that costs money :(
     
    Simon Hampel, 13th Apr, 2007
    #19
  20. Mark Laszczuk

    Mark Laszczuk Well-Known Member

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    Right on.

    Mark
     
    Mark Laszczuk, 13th Apr, 2007
    #20
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