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Some NavraInvest shares for sale

Discussion in 'Shares' started by Nigel Ward, 23rd Jan, 2006.

  1. Nigel Ward

    Nigel Ward Team InvestEd

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    A colleague of mine wants to sell around 20,000 shares in NavraInvest Limited to fund renovation of his PPOR.

    If you're interested please PM me and I'll pass on his details. (No it's not me, I would have bought them but we couldn't agree on price and my investment committee (aka the wife) said no more!) :D

    Cheers
    N.
     
  2. Nigel Ward

    Nigel Ward Team InvestEd

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    *bump*


    :)
     
  3. TryHard

    TryHard Well-Known Member

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    Price of units

    Hi Nigel

    Just out of interest, when you say you couldn't agree on price, is that because the last share price of $2.50 is not the going rate ? The only time I've seen shares traded (other than my purchase of some at $2.50 through the recent offer and some at $2.50 from another shareholder) was the ones sold on eBay. Just wondering what if any discussions determine what the units are now worth if you're trying to decide to buy some more or not ?

    Cheers
    Carl
     
  4. BSB

    BSB Well-Known Member

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    I imagine there are a number of NI shareholders involved in this forum who would also be curious to know. I suspect there are many of us who are both shareholders and unit-holders.

    I've seen numerous references on other threads re the lack of a healthy 'perfermance fee' being generated by the funds (to date). If you're a unit-holder it's no big deal as income and returns are coming our way with no management fee (sort of a bitter-sweet experience...). But, as a shareholder...if a worstcase situation (i.e no or minimal fees generated) were to occur for say this current year and the next I wonder what NI's strategy is to keep itself in the black. The proposed garnering of the quarterly fee is a good start, but will that be sufficient?

    Another interesting aside: someone on this forum (not sure who) said they were able to get minutes of the last NI AGM. I called today and was told they were still in the process of being 'prepared/produced'. Hmmmmmm....
     
  5. Alan

    Alan Well-Known Member

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    I think that may have been Carl in the following BSB:




    Hi Michael

    After speaking with Teresa at NavraInvest today about another matter (I requested and received a copy of the minutes of the AGM), if the above is a key concern I'd suggest making direct contact with Investor Services at NavraInvest (info@navrainvest.com.au). They have a committed service level / response time, and if they can't answer your specific questions, probably no one can :)

    In addition these services are specifically for shareholders and unitholders, professionally focussed etc. Whereas the forum I guess is participate if and when there is time, so possibly not the best place to get answers to strategically important questions about your investment.

    HTH
    Carl

    __________________
    -- Disclaimer - whatever I wrote above, while well-intentioned, probably doesn't make sense --
     
  6. TryHard

    TryHard Well-Known Member

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    Hey BSB - that was me. I rang Teresa at NavraInvest Investor Services and they were emailed to me. If you can't get a copy I guess I can post them here as they are a public document, but I'm sure Teresa will help you in the first instance - 1 300 656 131

    Cheers
    Carl

    PS Oops sorry - I didn't see alan's post. Need another coffee :rolleyes:
     
  7. Nigel Ward

    Nigel Ward Team InvestEd

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    Sure, no big secret.

    Valuation of unlisted shares is always difficult.

    I try to buy assets below what I calculate to be their intrinsic value.

    I wasn't able to do that in this case.

    The "going rate" is only ever what a willing buyer and seller agree upon.

    But I happily remain one of the largest shareholders in NI. :D

    Cheers
    N.
     
  8. TryHard

    TryHard Well-Known Member

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    Hi Nigel

    So what do you think their 'intrinsic' value is ?

    (Smaller shareholder interested to know the opinion of a larger shareholder :D )

    Cheers
    Carl
     
  9. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    It would seem that if nobody is willing to sell at less than $2.50, then the current "value" of the shares is still $2.50 ... despite what people might be prepared to pay :D
     
  10. Tropo

    Tropo Well-Known Member

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    " ....then the current "value" of the shares is still $2.50 ... despite what people might be prepared to pay".

    ....I would say...real value. :D
     
  11. Simon

    Simon Well-Known Member

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    I realise that your comment is tongue in cheek Sim. However in the absence of a secondary market for these securities or an income stream from them there is no real way I can see to value them.

    With the recent issue undersubscribed it even suggests that the $2.50 buyers are not there. Is this a fair comment?
     
  12. TryHard

    TryHard Well-Known Member

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    Interesting logic Sim ;)

    Presumably the shareholder mentioned is asking more than $2.50, otherwise if they haven't sold, I assume the same rules apply as for property - ie. they are only worth what someone is prepared to pay, not what someones 'wants' to sell them for ...
     
  13. TryHard

    TryHard Well-Known Member

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    There was $1.4M worth of $2.50 buyers, but not $5M ;)
     
  14. redrover

    redrover Well-Known Member

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    Still no word on the "free" shares for subscribers!! Asked several times but no response!
    :confused: :(
     
  15. TryHard

    TryHard Well-Known Member

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    I think Steve's indicated he's a bit limited for time to answer all posts on the forum. Dunno if you will get a quick answer on here. Have you tried asking the question via Investor Services at Navra Invest ?
     
  16. MichaelWhyte

    MichaelWhyte Well-Known Member

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    Valuation,

    Nah, that's easy...

    Its the present value of all future cash flows. If this is a perpetuity with periodic cash flows of 0c and an inflation discount rate of 3% then:

    A = R / r
    = 0 / 0.03
    = 0

    i.e. They're worth 0c!

    Now that wasn't that hard was it. ;)

    I'll do you a favour and take them off your hands at a million percent markup plus 1c. So, how's 1c each sound then?

    Just taking the mickie. It all depends on what the actual future cash flows by way of dividend will look like and that's speculative. If I had a view on this I could readily value the equity for you.

    Cheers,
    Michael.
     
  17. TryHard

    TryHard Well-Known Member

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    I'm personally pretty happy having paid $2.50 as I have every faith NavraInvest will go from strength to strength. Having said that I view them as one of my higher risk (and - long term future - high return) investments. The original shareholders experienced 150% growth in a relatively short timeframe, I gather we will need to exercise more patience ;)

    What I'm having trouble understanding is why there are 20,000 shares on offer (not counting those that were not taken up in the recent share offer of course) sitting unsold when a lot of influential people who also recognise the potential of NavraInvest know they're there. I guess they spent all their spare dough in the last share offer ? Or will they only buy them if the shareholder is prepared to 'take a bath' ?

    The shareholder who sold them on eBay had no problem achieving the $2.50 buy price (plus a few cents, from memory) - so what has changed ?

    I apologise for my layman's understanding, but because so many shares were offered to the market, is that what has decreased the demand ?

    Anyone ?
     
  18. MichaelWhyte

    MichaelWhyte Well-Known Member

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    Carl,

    Nope, the demand curve is independent of the supply curve, so having additional volume available at a certain price point has absolutely no bearing on the demand at that price point.

    I didn't take up the offer at $2.50 because, as you point out, its speculative. I'd rather take that $20K leverage it to $50K and buy NavTrade units with it and see it grow 15% pa. Now, if Steve were to spell out the intended dividends he'd like to see from the Navra shares and when they're to be paid, well then I'd be able to value the stock. Otherwise, its $2.50 and not going to do too much in the short term.

    Of course, that's the thing with spec stock. It could also go ballistic and I'll be kicking myself for not taking up the offer!

    Cheers,
    Michael.
     
  19. Mark Laszczuk

    Mark Laszczuk Well-Known Member

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    Technically you wouldn't, cause it's still speculation. Future estimates of dividend returns and when those dividends will be paid is simply pulling numbers out of a hat, no matter what. That's what I reckon anyway.

    Mark
     
  20. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    Yup, I'd be more than happy to own a lot more of NavraInvest than I do - but without any immediate returns (or even forecast returns) on that investment, at some point I had to say "enough" ... and limit my exposure.

    I would love to have bought a lot more - but I simply don't have the asset base (yet) to be allocating any more to speculative investments that are 1) illiquid, 2) not currently returning an income, 3) not looking like growing in value, and 4) do not have an exit strategy in place at this point (eg IPO).