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The Detached Trader.

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Tropo, 5th Mar, 2006.

  1. Tropo

    Tropo Well-Known Member

    17th Aug, 2005
    The Detached Trader's List of 5 Traders Worth Studying.

    1) Bruce Kovner, Hedge Fund Manager at Caxton Corporation
    Estimated Net Worth: $2 Yards Plus
    Primary Market: Currencies/FX
    Summary: Harvard educated, former Taxi driver, used credit from mastercard to start trading
    Personality Mention: Ultra secretive, mother committed suicide,Very creative and imaginative, politically conservative, Pro-Iraq war, from California
    Best resource on Kovner: Market Wizards, pg.51; George Soros's Right-Wing Twin (New York Metro)

    2) Dan Zanger, Independent Trader, runs Chartpattern website
    Estimated Net Worth: $20 Million
    Primary market: Naz stocks
    Summary: High school graduate, Former ski bum and swimming pool repairman, got addicted to markets from "Charting the Market" television show, took leveraged account up 29,233% in one year during tech bubble
    Personality Mention: Little life outside of trading, trading extremist, trades from 88-foot yacht with international satellite reach, Raised in California, likes wines and art
    Best resource on Zanger:

    3) Kenneth C. Griffin, Hedge Fund Manager of Citadel Investment Group
    Estimated Net Worth: $2 Yards Plus
    Primary Market: Bond Arbitrage
    Summary: Started trading stock options as freshman from Harvard dorm room, bond arb as sophomore, , was running million in college, Citadel big on quantitative trading methods, $12 yards plus under management
    Personality Mention: held second wedding in Garden of Versailles, taste for expensive Art, Doesn't allow anyone to talk to his former traders, tough guy to work for, Plays PS2 video games, wife runs separate hedge fund-Aragon Global, plays in soccer leagues, brainy
    Best resource on Griffin: Bloomberg Piece on Griffin

    4) George Soros, Hedge Fund Manager (now passive) of Quantum Fund
    Estimated Net Worth: $11 Yards Plus
    Primary Market: Currencies/FX
    Summary: Holocaust survivor, studied at London School of Economics, traded with Jim Rogers #5 before big fallout, Soros and network of associates gunned down cable/sterling for yards (billions) in profits in a week. Soros offshore entity alone slapped a $10 yard cable short on. Laughed when Bank of England said they would defend cable by borrowing $15 yards.
    Personality Mention: Insecure, divorced two times, emotionally detached, very ballsy-will go for the jugular if he sees something, morally and politically liberal, athiest, extremely dedicated to non-profit Open Society Institute, likes chess, checkers, and tennis.
    Best resource on Soros: Soros: The Life and Times of A Messianic Billionaire by Michael T. Kaufman

    5) Jim Rogers, Independent Investor, Author of Hot Commodities
    Estimated Net Worth: $150 Million
    Primary Market: Commodities
    Summary: From Alabama, Educated at Yale and Oxford, founded Quantum Fund with Soros before 'the split' where rumors were thrown around. Fired from Morgan Stanley after the Soros split. Trades Anything and Everything with Macro outlook. World Traveler. Author of Hot Commodities , Adventure Capitalist, and Investment Biker
    Personality Mention: twice divorced/ currently married, misanthrope,emotionally detached, blunt, hard to work with, very contrarian, questions everything, Very original, well studied independent thinker, very frugal, rode motorcycle around the world and later drove modified Mercedes around world for Guinness World Records.
    Best resource: Market Wizards pg.283, Jim Rogers personal website
  2. Tom&Don

    Tom&Don Active Member

    16th Aug, 2005
    Tropo - where is the list from, how can it help us.

    I know what the answers are for me, can you pls provide further info tho.

    .. I like to think of myself as a 'detached' investor - detached of emotion, fear, herd mentality etc etc. This suits my style. I KNOW it doesnt suit alot of others, including my father, the guys in the office, a bunch of people on this forum, fund managers etc etc.

    EG ... I dont need to be right. I just want to make money. If i'm WRONG 80% of the time, and only right 20%, but if I'm still making money then I am genuinely happy. I know this is not the case with most investors.

    The need to be right outweighs the need to make money.

    The focus on being RIGHT is more important than the focus on making money.

    Strange isnt it?

    Wealth psychology 101.


    PS .. i'm not saying its WRONG to want to be right - in my case the want to make money outweighs my need to be right.
  3. Nigel Ward

    Nigel Ward Team InvestEd

    10th Jun, 2005

    Nick Radge's book Adapative Analysis had the best explanation of this expectancy point that really stuck with me. It's just so ingrained in us from kindergarten and even in the professions that you have no margin for error. You MUST be right all the time and that all decisions matter just the same...

    I think it is a real psychological challenge for people to accept that they only need to be right when it REALLY counts to make money trading shares.

    How have others achieved this paradigm shift in thinking?
  4. Tropo

    Tropo Well-Known Member

    17th Aug, 2005

    LINK =

    I do not know how above list can help you or anybody else. It's matter of choice - like everything in life.
    Before you do anything read " THE NEW MARKET WIZARD - Jack D. Schwager.
    Read good books on this subject. You will gain a lot of knowledge.
    Only you can decide if you want to be right all the time OR make money.
    Legendary Turtle traders were wrong 5/6 times out of 10 - and they made millions.
    Do not forget that above 5 'Detached' traders (+ many others like them) are gifted ones !!.
    IMHO not every trader will become supertrader. After all G.Soros (my favourite one) is the only one of this caliber :)

    G.S. famous trade:
    In 1992 George Soros recognized double top on GBP/USD and he sold British pound (GBP).
    He put in excess of US $10 billion on the line.
    His expectation for GBP to weaken was directly opposed to the view of the Bank of England, which was reluctant to either let GBP weaken or to raise official interest rates at that time.
    So, GBP did fall heavily forcing the Bank of England to withdraw British pound from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism.
    G.S. earned US$ 1.1 billion along with the title of ' the man who broke the Bank of England'.
    But in 1995 Soros lost hundreds of millions of dollars when he traded Japanese yen (some are saying that yen is the most manipulated currency).
    In 1997 Soros was accused of being behind the fall of the Malaysian ringgit (MYR) amidst the Asian currency crisis.
    Well .... not many traders are so influential as Soros is on the individual basis, but few of them (as a group) can influence the market for a short period of time.

    You can not be right all the time. Nobody can !!.
    If your risk/money management system is very good - you can be wrong 5 times out of 10 and you can still make it.
    Yep ..... Nick is very good !! :D