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What is your favourite International fund?

Discussion in 'Managed Funds & Index Funds' started by tropic, 30th Apr, 2007.

  1. tropic

    tropic Well-Known Member

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    I have some money invested in Platinum International and International Brands funds.
    I also have a Platinum Asian fund that I intent to keep.
    Just applied for some Platinum IPO shares, should be a winner if I can get any.
    As been discussed on few other threads, some people no longer think Platinum International fund has done well lately.
    Can you share your research and finding on other better performing managed funds. I like to move my money to other funds.
    Thanks.
     
  2. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    The Australian markets have outperformed almost everything else (except perhaps China) over the last few years ... I wouldn't be too heavily weighted to overseas markets right now (Asia is a good choice ... but I'd not get overly exposed to the US).

    I like the Platinum European fund - although I don't invest in it at the moment (I can get far better returns from Australian funds). I also like the Platinum International Brands fund, but recent performance hasn't been great. These two funds are on my shortlist - but I'd only invest in them if they started to consistently outperform the other funds I hold.

    For other international funds, perhaps consider some sector specific funds such as Global Resources or Global Property Securities (CFS have good funds in both these sectors).
     
  3. Nigel Ward

    Nigel Ward Team InvestEd

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    I have some funds in both Platinum International and Hunter Hall Value Growth Trust. (I note though that about 16% of VGT's investments are in fact Australian companies!)

    Sim's right though...we just don't realise how good things have been in Australia for the last few years! Whilst we're all busily making hay I think it's prudent to bear that in mind...

    Cheers
    N.
     
  4. tropic

    tropic Well-Known Member

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    Yes, perhaps I should consider Australian Funds. It does make sense what you guys are saying.
    Having to say that, maybe it's a good time to have some in international fund because of the high Australian dollar? But it might even go higher at least in a short term.
    Platinum maybe is like other funds, when they get too big return diminishes.

    I buy Australian shares direct, perhaps I should look into a small cap funds since I don't like to buy small cap direct.
    Can you recommend a small cap funds? In the past I had Colonial and Challenger Small cap funds. They also getting to large in term of money invested.
    Have you heard of Ausbil?

    Thanks.
     
  5. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    I'm heavily invested in the CFS W/S Small Companies - Core fund, and it's been a great performer. I'm not sure if there's a retail version ... haven't looked.
     
  6. tropic

    tropic Well-Known Member

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    Sim, thanks for the info.
    I will research the fund a bit more.
     
  7. crc_error

    crc_error The Rule of 72

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    Rear View Mirror Investor?

    How do you know Australian Funds will continue to out perform global funds?

    Sounds like your a Rear vision mirror investor, chasing past returns and not focusing into the future.

    If you look at history, the best performing sector/asset class is rarely the outperforming sector the following year.

    skip to page 26, and the sheet will illustrate my point.
    https://www.btinfo.com.au/bt/brand/...ion/ten-investing-truths/investing-truths.asp

    If anything I would be reducing my holdings in the buoyant Australian market, and move my money into areas which have underperformed over the last 12 months.
     
  8. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    Welcome to the forum.

    I disagree with your assertions.

    I am not chasing past returns, if you spend the time to consider my strategy (which has been explained in several lengthy posts in recent months), you will see that I focus on what is performing NOW, not what performed well last year.

    Also, it is pretty difficult to invest in a "global" market ... you typically invest in a country or region, or (in the case of Platinum International), in a variety of isolated shares across a range of countries.

    You need to look at the market forces driving individual markets.

    - China / Asia should continue to do well based on growth in China and India - but is bound to be volatile (especially China).
    - Japan is slowly recovering from it's recent troubles, but is still very volatile.
    - Europe is recovering from a recessionary period, but is still struggling with regional economic issues (country economics affecting regional economics due to new EU memberships).
    - The US is continuing to look weak, with talk of a possible recession
    - South America is still too under-developed to be meaningful as a region ... only Brazil is considered "emerging"

    Australia has good (but not inflationary) growth, with extremely low unemployment, huge liquidity in the share market (mostly due to super), and a largely depressed real estate market (depressed in the largest markets like Sydney and Melbourne anyway). I see nervousness causing an increase in sharemarket volatility - but only back to historical norms (we have seen historically low volatility in recent years).

    I don't know anything - these are all just opinions, and I have no qualifications to add any authority to what I say. Feel free to disagree.

    I think the managed fund marketing spin of "invest in last year's worst performing sector" is a poorly considered strategy without any sound theoretical basis ... but if that works for you ... I wish you well.
     
  9. crc_error

    crc_error The Rule of 72

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    Thankyou..

    Tell me how can you know what the market will do tomorrow?

    Generally when there is a 'run' its quick and in a short period, so the whole year may be slow, with a sudden gallop. By the time you read what the 'market' is doing 'now' you have missed most of the initial run.

    R.Rivkin once said 'I never met a rich chartist' and essentially this is what your doing, your looking at recent data, and try to predict what the market will do in the short term.

    Me I don't invest in last years losers, I have a portfolio of Australian and International shares, and Australian and international property, and 2 hedge funds. So I have a good all round buy and hold mix. There will always be something doing well. I don't try to predict what tomorrow holds.

    So your telling me you don't hold any international exposure? I see nothing wrong with this, if thats your strategie, to only hold ozzie funds, but if your trying to predict, 'what will this year do' then I disagree with what your doing.

    By the time you can read what the market is doing, you will miss 70% of the opening gates gallop.
     
  10. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    Nobody can know that - I'm not suggesting otherwise.

    However, a market or sector that is performing well because of good fundamentals should continue to perform well until the fundamentals change.

    I think that is an over-generalisation, and I don't think it is true at all.

    No - I'm investing in sectors which have a good basis for continuing to perform well. I regularly adjust my weightings across my portfolio based on market sentiment (which basically means reducing my exposure to areas which have gone out of favour for whatever reason).

    I didn't say that.

    I invest via managed funds and have international exposure in the resources and property securities sectors, plus additional exposure to Asia. I have a European fund on my shortlist too - but performance hasn't been up-to-par in recent months to justify a position in my portfolio.

    Of course I'm trying to predict "what this year will do", but I'm not doing it based on some chart - I'm doing it based on fundamentals.

    The fundamentals are still strong for Australia - P/E ratios are reasonable, share price rises have been backed by strong earnings growth, there is significant liquidity in the market, and we have a robust economy. I don't see any doom and gloom for the Australian market yet (although I doubt we will see the strength of the last few years continuing - and we will see more volatility I suspect).
     
  11. crc_error

    crc_error The Rule of 72

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    Thats fair, I agree with re-weighting of your portfolio, if you think there is more strength in a area to move some additional funds to support that view.

    Can I ask what international funds are you in?

    I'm in the Platinum International (disappointing result but going to hang in there) and the UBS Global property fund, has done well for me. I also have the Macquarie Equinox Asia Fund which has been a let down.

    My Kick ass performers have been Australian LPT and Shares :D I can say I picked that one well, as I had most of my funds for the last 2 years in the UBS Aus Property fund which has returned for the last 2 years 30% PA. And I read somewhere LPT were the winning sector over the last 12 months.

    With international shares, I cant be upset at Platinum as looking at their peers, most international funds have been flat over the last 12 months. Do you have any views on their Brands fund? I have been looking at moving my money into it, cause of the smaller fund size.
     
  12. Tropo

    Tropo Well-Known Member

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    "R.Rivkin once said 'I never met a rich chartist' ..."

    It's like saying that rich fundamentalists do not exist.

    I heard long time ago that RR tried to employ (unsuccessfully) well known Oz chartist to write for his newsletter about technical approach to share trading.
    I wonder if he (RR) discovered at one stage during his insider's career what a lot of chartist are saying that .. fundamentals = funnymentals.
    PS - RR made real fortune as an art dealer not as a share investor. :rolleyes:
     
  13. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    CFS W/S Global Resources
    CFS W/S Colliers International Property Securites
    Platinum Asia

    I like the Platinum International Brands fund (better than the Platinum International Fund)... it is on my short list and I monitor it regularly, but hasn't performed well enough to be part of my portfolio.
     
  14. crc_error

    crc_error The Rule of 72

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    Why do you like the Brands fund over the international fund? So whats your trigger to get into the brands fund?
     
  15. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    Returns have been more consistent with the International Brands fund.

    Over the last 3 years, median quarterly growth in unit price has been 4.48% for Plat. Int. Brands versus only 1.22% for Plat. Int.

    As a comparison, Plat. Asia has a median quarterly return of 5.32%.

    The Plat. Int. Brands fund is currently ranked 7th on my shortlist (meaning I have 6 other funds performing consistently better over the short-medium term) ... a fund needs to be in the top 6 to be part of my portfolio.
     
  16. DaveA

    DaveA Well-Known Member

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    how do you see the short term future for the colliers fund? Im thinking of selling out my units to invest in the platnium IPO (by first day on the market) as i see a great short term return from those

    colliers seems to be going no where fast however after the last 12 months results you cant really blame it...

    opinions would be great...
     
  17. jscott

    jscott Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sim,

    This data that you think is marketing spin from the poorly performing managed funds actually orginated in academic circles both here and in the U.S. Of course it only looks at historical data, but how interesting it is that poor performers out-perform the good performers in subsequent periods.

    The following books detail the studies:
    - a random walk down wall street by burton makiel
    - the intelligent asset allocator by william berstein
    - common sense on mutual funds by john bogle.


     
  18. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    My problem is that the concept is a complete generalisation and not meaningful in a practical sense.

    There is no evidence that any particular fund which performed worse than any other particular fund will automatically perform better than that other fund in subsequent years. It only works when looking at the macro picture - averages across a larger number of funds.

    It does not help you pick fund A over fund B today.
     
  19. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Co-founder Staff Member

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    Short term ? Dunno ... crystal ball still broken - sorry.

    Medium - long term ? I'd think it will still be pretty strong.

    Attached are charts with MAVs for the financial year-to-date ... and for the last 2 years:

    (graphs are NOT logarithmic and are based on $10K invested at inception with distributions reinvested, ignoring tax. Click on the charts to see larger version in the photo gallery)

    Recently, the unit price briefly touched the 100 day MAV, but bounced back again immediately. Since then it has recovered, although has been flat for the last month or so.

    Recent performance:
    5 day: -1.04%
    30 day: -0.40%
    Fin year: 32.96%

    What does this mean ? Not a lot in my opinion.

    Yes, short term performance has been weak, but it's not trending down - just sideways, in my opinion.

    Locally, Australian LPTs have been hit hard recently, there was talk for quite some time about them being over valued, and possibly overexposed to interest rate rises. Now that interest rate increase speculation has dropped significantly for the short-medium term, I expect local LPTs to recover a bit ... but they've lost a lot of ground, so it will be a while before I'll be buying back in. However, given that the Colliers fund doesn't really invest in Australia, the local market fluctuations don't have any real impact on the fund (beyond currency impacts perhaps).

    I'm holding my Colliers fund for now. This is not a recommendation!

    ... if your strategy says that you should sell out to invest in PTM, then go for it.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: 29th Jun, 2007
  20. tropic

    tropic Well-Known Member

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    I heard some prediction that Australian LPT will underperform after years of fantastic growth.
    I don't have any intenational LPT, do they pay good dividend? Probably don't get any franking? I got bitten by LPT back in the late 80's, only invested a small amount that time but the bitter taste still stick with me.
    I should look into it, a lot of things has changed I think. They were run by cowboys back then, especially in WA.

    My own observation of managed funds is that once the fund size get very large, the performance is affected. Maybe difficulty in selling and buying larger amount without moving the prices and unnoticed. Especially in Australian market with smaller pool of shares.

    I have Platinum International, International Brands and Asian shares.
    Platinum International shares is getting pretty large now. They also admitted that they hedged the wrong way and taken by surprise on the strength of the markets.