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Where to buy IPs in SE QLD?

Discussion in 'Real Estate' started by iiinvestor, 22nd Mar, 2007.

  1. iiinvestor

    iiinvestor Well-Known Member

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    Hello

    We've been considering the purchase of another IP in the next few months and are keen on SE QLD. We have a few apartments around the Newstead/Valley area, but we want to focus more on growth for this one (so probably a house a little further out).

    Anyway, my question is to those with more SE QLD experience: do you have any pointers (mostly about areas) for investing there? I'll certainly do a lot more research, but I thought we may be able to get a discussion started.

    The areas I plan to research thus far are:
    - North of the CBD: Windsor, Red Hill, etc
    - East of the CBD: Manly and surrounding areas
    - The "Corridor"

    I would like to also consider the more remote hotspots, but am a bit uneasy about my lack of local knowledge.

    There's a big piece in this month's SI on investing in QLD, so that may be of interest to others who are considering IPs there too.

    Any info would be great + it would be good to hear from others who are planning to buy up there.
     
  2. remorseless

    remorseless Member

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    iiinvestor,

    I've recently bought a PPOR on the inner south side of Brisbane, and I see lots of really positive factors for the area. Especially on the transport front, the south side is excellently serviced - anywhere along the SE Freeway/busway/train line.

    Annerley is a suburb that's just beginning to undergo lots of change, but anywhere from there along the "corridor" can only do well.

    BTW, rents for my outer-suburb IP's are moving forward very strongly too.
     
  3. kevinb

    kevinb Well-Known Member

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    iiinvestor,

    There are some older type houses on 2 x 405 sq m blocks ( 2 titles) in Wynum/ Manly area. This would be ideal for future knock down and rebuild with 2 properties.

    Rgds

    Kevinb
     
  4. Muzza

    Muzza Active Member

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    I would have to say Wilston if your looking for growth - prices havent risen that much in the last couple years and its close to the city, good suburb etc - its going to have to boom sooner or later. Another one on the north side I'm looking at closelt is Keppera, older homes etc but its one of the cheapest suburbs on the north side and starting to lose its stigma (was originally full of housing commision homes). Otherwise anywhere near the north south bypass entrances, once the tunnel is complete it will only be a 45 minute drive (if that) to the gold coast.
     
  5. iiinvestor

    iiinvestor Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info all.

    I just spent a few hours at the property expo (Darling Harbour) and there was lot of positive info about QLD. I heard a number of references to the south of Brisbane CBD, so I'll have to add that to the list. Lomas, Yardney, the Reno Kings, etc mostly had positive things to say.

    The Reno Kings even mentioned their own buyers' agency for those interested.

    Does anyone who's local have a strong opinion for/against Queenslander style houses? Being an out-of-towner, I love the style, but of course it's not about me. The maintenance worries me, especially if locals are indifferent to the style. While I've been looking on websites, I tend to be attracted to the more traditional QLD house, but maybe I should change that thinking. Any thoughts?
     
  6. TryHard

    TryHard Well-Known Member

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    Hi iii

    As far as I can see, 'classic' Queenslanders are overrated and overpriced. Maintenance is expensive, timber and bits hard to find and match. But a well-renovated Queenslander in a prime position will always sell well - its probably the equivalent of a (Sydney) Paddington terrace house. There is an emotional attachment to 'em. and the replacement cost is huge. Give me a boring environmentally friendly version of a slab-on-ground any day :)

    Buying around Brissie, just watch out for the various entries and exits of all the bloody tunnels our maniac Lord Mayor is digging. Personally I think 8-12 km out is the golden area, just far enough away from the 'progress', and a good trip in when they finish the roadworks madness. I like West (Toowong, Auchenflower, St Lucia, Indooroopilly, Taringa, The Gap, Ashgrove) but bayside is great if you can afford it as recommended in this thread (Wynnum and Manly) - but there are some good and bad spots - needs a close look because Wynnum does not equal Wynnum if you know what I mean...

    We are only invested 28km out of CBD, between Brisbane and Ipswich, at a place called Karana Downs which I personally reckon is underrated - 5 km from Millionaire's Row with acreage at a quarter of the price. Rentals are great as it is the hub of water supply and there is a pipeline going in from Mt Crosby (nearby) to the Gold Coast, hence plenty of demand for accom.

    (A $350K house would yield $420 per week at present) ... Only short term, but a lot of other infrastructure work happening in future. Probably worth a look, but whether better than inner city or not, I'm not so sure :) We're only in there 'cos we swore never to sell another property and we already had a couple there :p

    Cheers
    Carl
     
  7. iiinvestor

    iiinvestor Well-Known Member

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    Hi Carl

    Thanks for the info; that's awesome.

    I was checking out Toowong and Auchenflower yesterday actually. I'll also check out the other more distant areas you mentioned. I really need to fly up and have a drive around for a couple of days, but time's not on my side at the moment. I did this about 2-3 years ago with another purchase and it was amazing how much we DIDN'T get to see in the time allotted. Although my opinion of Brisbane completely changed from that couple of days; I remember really liking it.

    Thanks again!
     
  8. D&K

    D&K Well-Known Member

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    Hi iiinvestor,

    Personnaly love the timber and tin QLDer look also. On an environmental perspective I actually disagree with Carl in that the hi-sets allow air to circulate under the house, which makes them cooler (particularly if you hang out downstairs in Summer as we did as kids). This might be all the more important if the ban on air conditioners in QLD gains momentum.

    However, because of the maintenance I would just be cautious of the old QLDers as well. If you were looking at a newer brick place I'd make sure it's got good eaves / verandahs / shade on the Northern side and preferrably colourbond roof. The no-eaves black tile rooves have made their way North and the houses swealter (e.g. brother-in-laws place if the aircon is off a few hours) - which means your tennant may look for something more comfortable.

    Having said all that, we've had more maintenance on newer town houses than the 60's style high-set QLDer and a 70's unit!

    The town houses have had good returns and higher depreciation - this meant close to +ve cash flow after tax, and CG has been good in the inner south within 6km. Our property managers have said, and their books back this up, that they are having more difficulty renting the older style houses with backyards to look after. Values for the town houses have gone up steadily and the rent has also moved up.

    Places I have looked lately (but we've found somewhere so I'm happy to share hunting grounds now) are:

    A. West End (if you've got the money), due to the revamping and development scheduled just south of South Bank.

    B. Northgate / Nundah or in that area with good access to the airport. There's something like 40,000 jobs planned to go into the airport precint in the next 5 - 8 years.

    C. Beenleigh. Out a bit but good returns, some development opportunities and good prospects. The Beenleigh town centre is getting redeveloped big time, plus it's on the main road and rail lines to Brissy and the GC. The area is changing but some areas are still better than others so you'd have to be selective.

    The prices are moving up steadily close into the city, but not across enough suburbs for the media to get into another frenzy. Further there are pockets rising but many areas may take more time before they rise again because there is more land available.

    All that to look forward to and I'm still down here in Canberra!

    Dave
     
  9. Jacque

    Jacque Team InvestEd

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    Ah queenslanders :)

    I posted this some time ago on a different forum....

    Older Qlders do require ongoing maintenance, especially with painting, but if they are in good shape when you purchase, then repainting really only needs to be done every 8-10 yrs and so factoring this cost in will give you a more realistic idea of what you will be up for over the years.

    The good ones do tend to hold their value, especially in nicer areas such as Paddington, Hamilton, Hendra etc and even better if they have all the desirable features still intact (breezeways, big verandahs, original high ceilings etc)

    When you purchase, look out for places that have had their plumbing and electrics updated as these can be enormous "hidden" costs on unrenovated houses........

    and this......

    It's important for buyers to be aware of the condition of the electrics and plumbing, as the upgrading of these can add enormously to the cost, if they haven't already been done.
    I've come across a few beautifully presented Qlders but with outdated electrics, which was only discovered when we enquired about adding an air/con unit or something similar. Lack of sufficient power points is also a problem in some of them, with most only having one in each room- nowhere near enough for all our modern day gadgets!!

    I've heard Coorparoo has been going very well with strong growth if that helps at all. I love Brissy and have IP's up there myself.
     
  10. TryHard

    TryHard Well-Known Member

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    Hi Dave

    Sorry I should have been more specific - I agree Queenslanders are vastly more suited to our climate than the 'typical' lowset brick. I was thinking purely from an investment perspective (but I agree more investments will be environmentally driven in future :) )

    However, having airflow under a house is not much good when the house is surrounded by highrise and there is no airflow anywhere ! That's increasingly the case if you drive through inner western Bris.

    Timber and classic fittings are like solid gold price wise, so if you want to protect and nurture an investment in classic Qld architecture you need a decent wad of cash behind you.

    Our lowset brick we now live in (against our better judgement cos we are not keen on sausage factory houses) survives well because of decent eaves, verandahs, full insulation, etc. although we are far from properly 'green'. We just could not have built a 32 square Queenslander in decent quality - for even twice the price.

    If I was buying for investment up here I would be looking for something as close to double brick or besser block as possible. Mind you if you get 'reasonable' tenants with realistic expectations a classic old colonial or Queenslander would be a joy for everyone involved. I just don't think they justify the premium price tag. But I would have happily bought 40 of them 10 years ago and I would still be happily hanging onto them :p

    Cheers
    Carl
     
  11. TryHard

    TryHard Well-Known Member

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    iii

    I was thinking perhaps it might be useful to compare Sydney to Brisbane to give you and idea of proximity / demographics - someone might care to pick holes in my comparisons. I only had 3 years in Sydney in the late 80's so I guess my assumptions are a bit old ...

    But, in terms of Brisbane equalling Sydney :

    Red Hill = Ultimo/Gladesville
    New Farm = Oxford Street Paddington
    West End = sort of outer Paddington but partly Redfern
    Nundah etc. = Botany (without water)
    Indooroopilly = Strathfield
    Auchenflower = Camperdown
    Ipswich = Penrith
    Paddington = hmm maybe Paddington too
    Bulimba / Hawthorne = Darling Harbour/Ultimo
    Inala = Auburn

    Probably a stupid idea to compare, but I thought it might help conceptualise. It would actually be interesting to continue Jacque's thoughts on what makes a desirable suburb, into the major capital cities to try to create some "bands" in which various factors place each suburb. Probably socially unacceptable, but hey - every little bit of local knowledge helps :p

    Cheers
    Carl
     
  12. Redwing

    Redwing Well-Known Member

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    iii

    We recently purchased in SE-QLD (13km for Brisbane to be precise) in an effort to establish a foot print in the area; I flew over there and the market definetly seems to be moving and as a bonus so are rents
     
  13. iiinvestor

    iiinvestor Well-Known Member

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    TryHard:

    That's awesome; exactly what I needed. Although, I'm not a native Sydneysider, but I've been here long enough to get your comparisons.
     
  14. Muzza

    Muzza Active Member

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    "

    Its interesting you say this, prices seem to be dropping in those areas, but if you look at the effect of the completion of the Sydney tunnels on house prices in the area near entry/exit points you might be presently surprised. Personally I'm hoping to pick something up cheaply near the Lutwyche entry point. Once the tunnel is finished your looking at about 10 minutes to the airport, 30 - 40 minutes to the gold coast and eventually 10 minutes or less to toowong.
     
  15. TryHard

    TryHard Well-Known Member

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    Hey Muzza

    I totally agree suburbs that go from being congested to suddenly having great access to major facilities are a goer :) I just mean avoid being right near the entry and exit points to the tunnels. They're only compensating people whose properties actually have to be resumed, so if you are unfortunate enough to be towering above the entry to the tunnel, and not a resumption target, I reckon you (or your tenants) can kiss afternoon naps goodbye ! Maybe I'm just too anti-traffic :p

    Cheers
    Carl
     
  16. Jacque

    Jacque Team InvestEd

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    Hmmm.... you haven't been down to Sydney for a while now, have you Carl?! :D

    Please allow me to give you my humble opinion of differing comparables to some of those Brissy suburbs- I feel I can speak from a little experience as I lived up there myself for almost five years and regularly visit (hubby's family and friends up there) so know most of those suburbs....

    Red Hill = Think cafe society suburbs like Mosman, Cremorne, Neutral Bay
    New Farm = I know it's improved out of sight since I was there last so I'm thinking it's more comparable now to Woolloomooloo :D
    West End = agree with you about Paddington but still a little "sleazy"?
    Indooroopilly = can't comment on this but any suburb close to CBD with large shopping centre and hospitals close by...
    Ipswich = Penrith - spot on I'd say :D
    Paddington = hmm maybe Paddington too - YES!!
    Bulimba / Hawthorne = This is much nicer than yukky Ultimo if you ask me, and quieter too- I'd compare this gentrified area now with somewhere like McMahons Point/Milsons Point actually
    Inala = Hmm..... could be a number of suburbs but won't comment too much for the fear of offending a resident here ;)

    And, yes, you are completely socially unacceptable :D with your suggestion about suitable suburbs- perhaps we could start a covert list?! :D ;)
     
  17. TryHard

    TryHard Well-Known Member

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    Jeez I dunno Jacque, considering my usual accuracy I'd say I did ok with the original list at around 30-50% correct :) Thanks for the modernising and update though :D

    Not sure Red Hill is like the Northern beachy suburbs but I see what you mean

    Now you said it, New Farm = Wooloomooloo makes a lot more sense ! Even to my old way of thinking

    True, Bulimba and Hawthorne are more cafe society than Ultimo I spose - I was thinking near water and close to CBD. Sadly Brisbane River isn't much like Sydney Harbour so geography might be working against me :p

    I still think its useful to have some comparisons - I get irked when I see people promoting Ipswich as the next Strathfield or Parramatta - Ipswich is ok for what it is, as long as people don't falsely market it :)